hello and welcome to F comes first broadcast in a series of broadcasts that's going to happen over the coming weeks I'm Dale Parmenter CEO of D RPG and I'm here in our Worcestershire studios I'm joined virtually on the sofa from first of all Cvent Jaime Vaughan welcome Jamie tell us a little bit about about you and and what you get up to 800 guys good to see you I'm Jamie Vaughan I'm head of European Salesforce events we do event management solutions technology I've been in technology for over 10 years he's actually quite a long time prevents technology so seen lots of changes not quite seen this current one but lots of changes over the years great to see you but and from a vision Andrew Smith welcome Andrew hi how are you so yeah we are a screen content production company so we work a lot in augmented reality and virtual reality and lots of video product is very often over some very unusual screen types so we're very excited about this particular venture and from karma Jon welcome thank you thanks for introductions so I look up to karma and we kind of been live streaming for a number of years and with Facebook and YouTube special projects partners and we do stuff for them like the World Cup as well - like your Joshua fights storm Z stuff and we also handle special projects on this is a live streaming domain for the major broadcasters like YouTube and so like I to be BBC in sky brilliant welcome to all of you and together we're going to be exploring the possibilities of the virtual world and if you have any questions or comments at any time please submit via the portal and I'll be receiving them here on the iPad so it's challenging times many of our communication channels are being turned on their head and in particular live events but now more than ever we need to communicate with our customers and with their people so virtual has really come to the fore so Andrew you've been involved in have come for many many years when you look across the cross-section of members and the expertise and the experience that they represent the combined F con membership must be in a great place to rise to the challenge of the virtual world well I mean it's almost you know as though the organization's finding its you know its feet here because you know really what a virtual event is is pulling you know the very very best of the live event sector and and working collaboratively with the with the video sector I mean I think that that's something that hasn't kind of quite happened before you know that's creatively you know live events is kind of you know very much kind of being within its own world and what what videos kind of darkness is that it's that certain aspects at certain points throughout those events certain points throughout the day that's you know creativity is how to flourish if you like this is very much about kind of bringing the two worlds together and you know seeing how we can create great and wonderful things so so really where we started with overcoming bringing all these expertise together this is really an opportunity to see that collaboration fly I really think that yeah I mean it's it's it's a wonderful wonderful opportunity you know to you know be bringing that skill base together and you know there will be so much of this world that is you know is only the unit kind of a video mind if you if you like but you know certainly from me you know the the organizational and it administrational side it's um you know it is of course sitting very correctly within the live event sector as well absolutely and Jamie so event agencies we've seen I've seen hundreds if not thousands of events been to postponed and canceled so if their clients now want to convert to virtual what's the starting point is there a different lifestyle all over again and replan the whole thing from scratch what's your take on it so that's a great point though and first of all I'd like to point I mean we great we're quite large we have about 33,000 customers putting on events all the time and the trend we're seeing is principally cancellation so principally postponed or canceled ation the opposites so most people have a positive outlook most worth of seeing beyond the situation room right now so I really think it's the industry that's that's really really good to hear and nice to see some some positive thoughts set as far as planning yes a really good question that is actually quite evident if you look at some of the webinars and events that have been in put on right now in my mind that the industry is full of well-trained professional band planners who have been to college and all tons of experience in how you manage a program of events whether it be one event or Sur events that goes right through from event application registration all the build-up to an event that the speaker content then the day of and then the data extraction and data management thereafter the reality is that shouldn't change why should that be any different if you're going to do an event do an event properly the only difference is of course the virtual or real real-time space so as far as registration mobile apps not the content nothing should really change unless of course your event is just a bit of an eager let's get 20 people in the room have a quick chat right now and that's of course you can just do not dissimilar to something like this or many I've been on before we can put something together quite quickly but where you want the real content to come through the planning should be as thorough as it always has been only and Jerry mentioned about the virtual part of it so that's John where you come in in the technology and there's so much technology out there I mean what's your take on the kit that we we need to use another good question so obviously this largely depends on the quality of programming that you want to create but more importantly the equipment you've got access to and the size of your internet connection so from very simple group chat applications like zoo or Microsoft teams and you can use you know your phone straight into YouTube or whatever you wanted to connect with your audience that the key thing is bandwidth for you and the big issue at home is everybody's on Wi-Fi home and you know everybody is using the internet so you need to make sure you don't fall over so you need to be you know some tips would be to get close to you modem close your other applications just have a stronger connection as you can if you can have a hardwired connection great but if you haven't got any internet at all your Wi-Fi goes down look at doing it through your phone on cellular connection or using your phone as a data bridge for brigid jobs we're bringing in these special little boxes that amalgamate sort of internet connection and cellular data and satellite and give you a very big stable pipe but again therefore kind of the stuff where we're trying to hit a million to two million viewers so just bear that in mind now you laptops at home how do you do it you do it on your laptop to do on your phone well generally your phone's got a better camera than your laptop so I would suggest you look at your phone first if you can plug a webcam in and then have a think about how you use that you're better off in landscape mode rather than poetry so this picture now is in landscape mode nice and wide it works better further kind of a no streaming platform like Facebook for example most of the other video windows without a mine either there are a couple of things you can do try and sit against a plain Ishwar bleh backgrounds like I don't say you can't see the cat or the toilet or whatever it is you're in the room with and importantly try not to have the light behind you so don't sit with the window directly behind you or you won't be able to see you you can buy some cameras from Amazon and places like that there are other suppliers obviously in there about 30 quid they call led rinks they're really good I'm going on this side cousins a window there but it's just try and be sensible about it for more professional stuff we can bring in kind of remote cameras which little remote control robotic cameras and then you can do the kind of production but we're seeing in the studio now that would obviously be as the guys have said earlier if it's a boardroom meeting one set of things if it's a big conferencing event you wanted to look a little bit sleeker the last thing really is think about your audience participation how do you want to keep them engaged first is you know trying to hire quality content as you can to keep engaged second is Q&A or portal participation again like you're doing here Dale and there are number ways to do that we've got social moderation to literally for the platforms to stay you know any embarrassing comments but importantly you could do it with a Google sheet where someone else is stuck next to you moderating questions and you look at it like you know on an iPad or a second screen the last thing really is that the content comes the video content company members would have come they can make content and it can go up as live we've got MC our facilities master control room where we take a prepackaged program and we play in our life we're doing something like that for national and because we had a bit of a challenge doing the cameras life from for the space station because there was too much delay so we have to play in that bit of it and then put it into the live show so really the world is your oyster but first find out what your audience is what platform you're going to learn about those basics and and I try and explain the technology in very simple terms to to maybe event organizers that don't know much about the technology is you're selecting your technology like you're selecting your venue so if you've got a seminar running for 20 people then you may use something like teams or zoom or whatever if you're then wanting to run a conference for a thousand people you would hire a big hall so you need a big system to better support that and a big platform to be able to support that content that engagement and that interaction and talking about that you know the tech is all very well audience engagement is key we've got so many people who are used to watching TV YouTube whatever it is professionally made productions if we're gonna push this content out it's got to engage the audience so Andrew about content you're a Content producer what's advice would you give to people who are putting together a program you know a 20 minute conference or meeting what do they need to think about in terms of content it's not just about the technology is it well I mean I probably the best bit of advice would be watch television there's so much television which is actually created with virtual Studios I mean you know much of the day for example there's a virtual studio a number of the you know news channels are working that way as well and you know these are of course incredible the well worked photorealistic very very believable environment so so the first kind of piece of advice would be kind of see see what people are kind of expecting to be you know delivered as good because you know you know obviously television is kind of set in the the standard if you like that Dale you know on the on on the other points of you know what can kind of people expect creatively I mean this is a this is an incredible forum for augmented reality in particular because I think you've got some examples to show of that we've gotta kind of see that in a little while yeah but before when augmented reality was being used at a live event you were very very reliant on the screens being so large that they were kind of taking the eye and and you know not perhaps kind of concentrating exactly on what was happening on the stage so you would creative magic to to some degree here the only thing people are looking at is the screen itself so to augment that with with a further layer be this something you know moderately straightforward like you know stats and graphs that are kind of animating around you you know you know in a not dissimilar way to how we kind of expect on those BBC broadcasts on election night but of course this you know many other ways that this can go even kind of you know elaborate things like gamification which is which is an interesting thing and I think we've got kind of a final point creatively is is that I don't know if there's kind of too much study and evidence about this just at the moment but I can only imagine that what people are are doing is that you may well think there's a captive audience but that they're kind of kept it from you know this this part of the screen if you if you see what I'm saying what they're probably doing you know with their hands and on a on a you know on other screens this is that you know they're playing that on their mobile that there the second screen in this you know there's a a laptop or whatever that they're also kind of you know connecting with so I think this gives kind of like a a further emphasis that's all of those tried and tested things that we're done at you know a physical live event where we're apps would be created and other screen engagement would be created is just as valid if not perhaps more valid in this world as well I'm sitting on that that's what we used to watching on TV and we can show just a simple example of Andrew mentioned a chart there we are just popping up on the coffee table and I think we got another image there of a house coming up it just makes it a little bit more engaging and a little bit more than just sat in front of a laptop and and that interaction piece the apps you mentioned there Jamie obviously your your business to learn all for a lot of apps talk about apps to use yes so absolute very much our business we have we have three businesses that the provide apps market than we do about three and a half to four thousand apps per month on a standard basis so we but a lot of coverage there and Andrews point is very valid one of the most common objections I would get when event planner is why would I buy an app when I really want my owners to watch watch the event he said well modern behavior suggests that they will watch events but also go down to their phone so you need to embrace what people do how they behave right now and then put elements of content or engagements in their hands so they don't leave your event virtually because if they're on Facebook or checking their emails they're not with you if they're in an ass the emulates your environment and promotes things like networking or elements gamification or content deployment or whatever it may be that means you're at least in control so the basics like Q&A polling and all that we would typically do through the app in a physical event there's no reason we couldn't do that of course in a virtual event now I know there are many virtual platforms and have a bit of Q&A as well so that's perfectly fine but if you want someone to actually have a second screen if that's something you're promoting because having games or networking and other things are there then you may as well put as much of that content within the app to ensure they're staying within that screen and John from a technical point of view so I'm an event organizer I'll now got all my slide deck I've got my videos that would normally play on the on the big screen can I just take all that and just feed it through the system yeah technically it's very straightforward you just give us what you want to go into the show and we put it in straight straight over the show but if you're doing it at home you can also do screen sharing and in apps like zoom and stuff like that you could share a document or an app and refer to it and you can have it as big or small as you want so there are no technical hurdles on that you know you guys are doing a lot of this kind of stuff so what else you doing at the moment you know how are you seeing there your clients you know asking you what are they asking you for at the moment we're dealing with that we I mean we would do probably I don't know half a dozen virtual events possibly in a year last week we put 40 proposals together for virtual events but as Jamie said it's those cancellations are quick we've still got this date is in the diary we're still going to communicate with their leadership team or our sales team or whatever and actually there's even more important now to communicate with their teams so they want to bring alive what we what we're doing and what we were going to do in a conference hall into the virtual space so that means now coming up with ideas around exhibitions around breakouts or in team building and we've been pushing out quite a lot of that stuff and we think we've got some image around there the virtual exhibition stands and this is something that has gone down extremely well where delegates can choose where they want to go so they walk into the exhibition hall they say I want to go and see that stand I want some information click on the interaction that information will bring but will end up on to their their laptop move along to another stand and of course we'll talk about analytics in a second we're observing all this we're seeing where everybody is going which is absolutely brilliant and then also that breakouts those team building that disappearing off okay we're all going to break out now into different rooms you can have a session on X Y & Z and then we're all going to come back together all this is very possible and we've been to a lot to our clients but we've been also doing a lot of thought leadership using the studio here a weekly thought leadership just to keep clients engaged with with what is going on in terms of our world and then from our team's point of view because we know the importance of using the technology to communicate with the teams we've had a series of different activities some fun bit mad and some not so fun more serious so we meet every week on a Tuesday the whole team getting together virtually we have people telling about case studies they're doing things that they're happening how are they getting on at home so we're bringing in I think yesterday we brought in 14 different people onto the sofa here talking about what's going on across the business because they're all remote and then on a Friday we have virtual drinks and we have that interaction using the apps into a game show tomorrow we've got a virtual Easter egg hunt around the building so all that silliness can go on we've had dancer thongs yogurt all that stuff you just everything you could do in the real world you can do in the virtual world I think and and going on from that if people must say well actually if I want to monetize this and I know there's a lot of freebies going on at the moment but there's an opportunity here maybe to monetize some of these broadcast John this is something you're doing already isn't it yeah events for many many years but it's it's a slightly different market there are still really good opportunities primarily a lot of the stuff we're doing around celebrity driven and what most people are doing is they're giving away the content with the donate button so you donate and you chuck some cash at the NHS basing it which is a great idea and people stay engaged and they want to help but there are the opportunities and they offer kind of training and educational videos stuff like that where people you know the broadcasts can be free but then you drive them down a river and actually I'd like to know more about this and therefore I'm happy to pay for it so providing you sort of give them a taste rub it or you can go straight in with there if you know people know what they want at the beginning you can to be running a life course it could be about you know how to claim some kind of the loans of the governor offering at a moment but you know advice costs and there's very easy technically to do behind paywalls there are a number of platforms available and I'm sure Jamie could probably help you with that as well because that's his back yeah I was going to come to Germany around also the analytics and the ROI behind all that yes oh so payments are something that we do as a matter of course and it's just about the content isn't valued to their content so and as John alluded there are some some scenarios like training and certification where you might need to sit the classroom you can't do the right now but you still might need to get certified a certain thing so there may be a painful process you can GA then definitely create virtual process to share and collaborate that content with the tutor or lecturer and then and then and then take it back from from their roster as far as data and the old ROI or is very interesting term in our in our industry but one thing that gives you the ability to track the metrics of courses the face a big data so the beauty of my first point where you need to look at the the entire process from registration pre-reg ticketing conversion rate mining or not money whatever that works then you go to event the track after so in any any particular event you should have this framework their virtual makes a difference to that you should be you should be looking at this the virtue element if you have correct integrations which which all about out so we expect me all the bank main virtual platforms on 24 WebEx and zoom and all that or the niche ones no proper tool you can in carry data so someone can delegate can register they can register their persona into certain types of themes of content they only get to see that content through the platform they then might involve EQA they may download content they may have engagement they may have gamification they didn't have a great day that's memorable which is good for them but ticking box then afterwards the organizer then owner is able to understand and and interrogate that data and look at certain behavioral traits look at what was taken away what was what was gleaned and gained from a deli perspective from certain elements of that content or certain speakers and that then becomes your return on event of course then becomes your ROI so you can genuinely track this entire process but first point don't certainly 20 other events you know if you spend a lot of money on a bed make sure you are tracking it and you have the integration in place to read it after we talk about the logging on and I'm getting into different areas of of the conference security John any any thoughts on security if I'm worried about the content I'm pushing out I'm not sure if anybody can just hack into it what are your thoughts on that yeah that's a really really tricky one I mean a lot of these new platforms that popped up like zoom and white house party are not as secure they do have one abilities and whatsapp has one abilities as well which we've known about for a long time so either put it within an app which is you know what I'm saying because it's security app you control the parameters if it's really critical do it in an app for that event otherwise you you have got some vulnerabilities that's as much as I can say yes in secure message in your owner and zoom we've seen in the in the press has recently been investigated around their security issues and I won't say exactly what appeared on the screen the other day when I was presenting on a webinar but let's just say it was a little bit of pornography just interspersed with where I was presenting it was a hell of a off-putting in piece when you're trying to present a formal presentation and somebody hacked into acting 2zu okay so we've got a question here I'm not sure who's gonna pick this up are you concerned that virtual conferencing will replace the live conference I don't know who wants to take that opinion because I've been asked this a lot so first of all the virtual events are not new right you guys are in a video you understand this the technology been there for a long time and people been doing a virtual event took quite some time we are a bit magic platform so it doesn't matter for us but most of our clients will assume a physical element however sustainability has been knocking on door for quite some time why would you fly 500 people around the world to me in a hotel in Las Vegas for three days when you can do it on Zoom maybe if it's internal so that's been it's been looked at for quite some time I think this is the non novel has now become the normal so this whole video streaming element is now standard we're doing it we're likely working behind which we didn't normally do so I think there are some positives from silver linings we're learning what can be done here personally there's no way in my life ever I don't think face-to-face is going the way that's a theater stay we love it it's what we do but I do think there's an opportunity for amplification if your venue has capacity and you're at capacity you can expand that if you have a physical event there's no reason why you can do a pre event virtual and a post event virtual to keep your community out today so I believe the the world of a hybrid notion he's gonna real for quite some time and a lot of our clients are asking about that right now because they're seeing through this situation and they're projecting for their their meetings programs in 20 21 and 22 7 thinking hey is this now something we can we can bring and make something better for our delegates absolutely I think you touched on the sustainability point there I think that he's going to come back to the fore at once with this crisis over I think when we start to look at those big congresses of 5,000 10,000 people in in a location saying Berlin and everybody flying from all over the world II are those going to be more the dying breed we're actually you will still get the big Congress but maybe 500 people in different locations around the world all hybrid into to that meeting and that's something that possibly could could happen and save on that transport and that flights who knows John one for you what's the best platform for large for a large virtual audience say 500 and over okay so if you want it if you want it in close platform use Vimeo Pro service you just have to subscribe to it then you can plug the window into your own website if you want to go to a social platform it's either Facebook or YouTube it's as simple as that sounds really really simple I'm sure it's more complicated than that yeah it's just it's just ins and outs isn't it but it's a cable and we have another question here we're coming to the end of the broadcast now let's just talk about the future is this the new norm I know we just touched on is a threat to to the live conference I don't believe it is but we're not going to go back to how we were are we I mean this is now really open to people's eyes to remote working people working from home and people being teams being able to communicate without traveling do you think that we are gonna see a new norm post this Andrew probably the answer is is that will will settle somewhere in the middle of those two places isn't it it's um you know we certainly have seen some things working incredibly well I mean of course home working for the most part is is working well and you know people have seen distinct advantages in the you know cutting down of travel so I think that there will be you know something which is the world of live events that will be very sought after once all of this kind of calms down people will want to get out and meet and be and be with others once we feel safe but I think that that's gonna be some time off and probably what's highly likely it is that this is a medium will will union will develop during that period during the next you know nine months to a year and be a very sophisticated medium indeed and you know and a challenge due to a physical world yeah yeah I think I mean one thing I've certainly found with my different teams they're actually communicating and collaborating more since they've been at home we've got 320 of them all at working at home and every morning each these teams they're all logging on and having their team meetings and virtual coffee breaks and all that stuff I think what they actually do that fair we're really in the office where they go and have that interaction and probably know because its head down get on with the work and all the rest of it so we don't know the question coming in here with the events you've done since the lockdown how much content is scripted pre-planned pre-recorded presenters animations video etc how much is live unscripted and how do you see this changing during the lockdown anybody want to pick that up I mean I think so yeah okay so it's roughly this roughly half and half scripting is really important it's important to know what this show is and what content you're going to put out but a lot of it you know well if you're into the show and you throw it out an audience it becomes unscripted anyway so that's a big thing one of the fun things with in at the moment is the Royal Society have appeared at the Albert Hall for 149 years every year this year they can't it's closed so we had to get everybody to pre-record which is like pre scripting their performance of Handel's Messiah we're rejoining it into a window with a hundred little faces that will move around on that'll go on Good Friday but it's a mix tale and I'm sure you you've sort of seen the same thing how you know how about what have you seen absolutely and what we advise all our clients is and I've taken part in webinars and I we've we've organised webinars or broadcasts and and for me it's got to be down you're right it's got to be down to the scripting and the planning and the rehearsal they're in the rehearsals absolutely key we even rehearsed this I have to say which is which is unlike us I know but we you know to put an engaging piece of work on you just think you can just open your laptop and just present isn't just not going to work you would you would rehearse it you'd planet you'd script it if you're doing a conference in front of a hundred people or whatever and you plan it so so all those disciplines you'd put into a TV show need to go into this type of broadcast albeit it can be incredibly simple because I mean it was just kind of occurring to me is is that it's a reception from a client site that as a as a medium that this is is perhaps less expensive what so I I just wonder if it were to be is it is it kind of there for you know a client isn't kind of quite you know taking it as seriously as much as a physical live event why I think there's still a lot of learning going on there from a cost point of view yes it can be a lot a lot lower cost because you haven't got the venue your catering and all the transport anything else on Camtasia and all that stuff going on but to do it properly you do need to put some investment into there into that planning because yes we can just rock up we can all open our laptops we can log onto a platform and do a meeting how effective is it do people make the change have to behavior change do they do what you want them to do after they've watched it and that's the key and if they don't what's the point in doing it so if you're going to invest the time into this then invest some planning and some production time in to make it special I think that's what my advice would be certainly to everybody who's putting one of these together we've got another question here how much coaching is required for speakers presenting virtually is it much harder to present to camera without having an audience directly in front of you yes it is it is because you know you've got nothing coming back to you there's no reaction nobody laughs at your jokes mind you they don't laugh the jokes anyway so but we've advised clients in the past where you can have an audience is always trying to have at least 20 or 30 people in the audience because at least you've got some sort of reaction back and it feels like it's a it's a meeting but of course in this current lockdown all we've got is the camera and you just got to imagine behind that camera is the hundred people 200 people thousands of people and you've got to treat that camera as the person and it's incredibly difficult to engage so in terms of the coaching yes I would definitely suggest that need some coaching to get used to operating with the camera working with the camera and and I'm putting that point across because presenting to a camera is much more difficult as I'm finding out where are we we've sort of covered this one I think you mentioned about bigger platforms house larger venue a larger events what are these please well I think you've you've covered that John great so any final words anything you think a message to the to the membership we've got about 40 online now which is good John and I think you'd like to just finish off with yes just to reiterate really just be sensible we'll look out where you want your straight to go to how are you gonna execute it and what your end results gonna be and then once you've got that be confident in your technology make sure you've taken away all the kind of problems that could crop up like you know everybody in the house screaming Netflix or Amazon primer or other services obviously just aggregate risk and enjoy it there's loads of opportunity go looking for it I think that we found out only only a couple of weeks ago people who are on VPN into their servers back in the office if VPNs on a lot of this stuff will really struggle for streaming technology so it may be worth if you're going on for a stream is to turn the VPN off Andrew your thoughts I think kind of just coming back to a previous answer is is that some in order for this there's a it's a kind of vehicle to you know to work is that it's got to look great it's got to be polished and rehearsed and a very very high production value so I think kind of you know look to you know the companies that have been doing this incredibly well and look to television in order to see how you know virtual studios and suchlike are being used and see that as a kind of standard to aim for because you know we're all consuming lots and lots of screen time at the moment whether it be you know fun and entertaining or whether it be you know business is so you know that I think people are very aware of what is there for high standard now and you know that's what companies need to aim towards okay Amy any thoughts yeah absolutely I mean first of all just a second and or absolutely look at dig-out case that is because we are in a world now where there is so much activity in this space ding okay studies not just glossy brochures dig okay centers that have been deployed successfully but my answer was stick to the basics you know you would never do an event without registration or inviting people or knowing the daylight or checking them in the front door or doing looking at what they did when they were there or actually no questions or having interactions make sure that is there else you just got this process of them talking to people and that isn't what aversive event is an event is a two-way flight of information so the basics shouldn't change and talking about that two-way actually we've got another question coming in about managing Q&A with virtual so we're doing it this way you're all typing in it's coming onto the laptop here which is fine these are other ways of doing it John I mean what about two-way so we can now get the audience coming in and we can see the audience on the screen is that possible yes it's very possible it's very similar you know it's very simple for us to do it's a bit trickier if you're gonna do it home on your own it's not possible as a service like zoom but we can have multiple webcams coming in and we can sort of cross over to you know Mavis in Dudley who wants to ask a question about how to bake a cake and then she'll pop up on the screen and a window like we are here so yes it is are we we do a town hall for a city firm a town hall meeting four and a half thousand people online of which 60 out of those locations it's one way like we're doing now and 20 are the locations it's two-way where we may have say 200-300 people in a room in the States in Africa in the Far East and then they're facilitated in their own right and then those questions so we go over to Hong Kong they've got a question they'll bring it into the meeting and and this is where I think the power of the virtual and the hybrid starts to really kick in you can start to do some really interesting stuff where you've got multiple points and multiple delegates in those points as well and bringing them all together and and that that really works powerfully well we did a food tasting for a food company and it had to be in Thailand America Poland and Paris where we sent all the food out and then we had a bit of funnel food taste they all all cook the food they're doing the tasting they're voting on which is the best product it was all about product development for that company so there's a lot of that stuff you can do that keeps it interactive I just check it it any more questions Thank You Claire she said we're all doing a fantastic job that's what we like keep them around up so I think that's all we got time for so thank you to John thank you to Andrew Thank You Jaime I hope you've enjoyed it I hope you very informative and say this is part of a series of different types of broadcasts and webinars that ever come we'll be putting on to really help the membership through this period thanks for joining goodbye