right good afternoon everybody welcome to this week's of comm sessions this week we are talking about mental health and well-being life after crisis thank you very much for joining us can I just suggest if you have any questions through this session please put them in the Q&A session and mark will attempt to include those questions as you're going along and direct them to the appropriate individual on the panel I will then come through at the end just to end the session at 344 45 thank you pardon for 45 and but without further ado I would like to introduce you to the facilitator of today's session who is Mark Mayer who's chair of event well and sales and marketing director of Boulevard events so mark if I could pass over to you now thank you very much welcome everyone I am indeed Mark mail from Boulevard events and also chairman of M well it's an absolute pleasure it's always a pleasure to be involved in discussions like this but particularly at a moment during a period where I think you know obviously it's Mental Health Awareness Week but I think over the last several weeks it's been a topic that that most of us have fought a lot more about I think it's a topic that requires a level of vulnerability to sort of get engaged with and as such I quite often find myself either be in the only male or one of very few males in a room when I attend all health-related events so it's very very nice to be joined by James Colleen and gabbing today to talk about his topic so what I'd like to do is jump straight into the content it's a very hot day and the weather is lovely so if we can stick to schedule and provide as much value as we possibly can over the next 45 minutes that would be great in turn we can all go and get some vitamin D so without further ado I'd like to come to Colin for the first question and Colin you'll what you do from my understanding is is heavily involved with sort of human behavior and sort of navigating change in general obviously this is a time where whether we go back to normal or whether we go back to some sort of new normal there's gonna be an element of navigating change coming for us all as individuals and what I wanted to ask was you know how can we prepare for that as a on an individual level and what can we be doing to get ready for that thanks for that mark good afternoon everybody yeah we have been through so much change and I think it's good as we embark on the next part the next stage of our lives and careers which i think is going to be in the more of us are going to be going back to the workplace and resuming what everybody's now starting to call the new normal because it's not going to be what it was before and I think we're all expecting that in fact that's the I think the big word that bubbles up for me when you ask that question is around acceptance it's taking on board that whatever is going to happen is going to be different and if you enter and return to the workplace with that with that mindset as an open mindset and accepting mindset and I think there are a number of really good things that could happen on the back of this I I don't know about anybody else and it's like having four miles on a panel to talk about mental health is great because I'm so used to counting this in male and female terms but I think it's some really good discussions we can have yeah for me it should go back into the workplace sifting through that the good and the bad of things that have happened during the course of the last three months or so knowing that some of the changes that have happened to us who have talked to something have given us a different experience given us something that we can take back and use and make the workplace a better way and it's only if I'm a small business so it's just just myself and my colleague but you know I think if you're going back into a team environment doing so on a basis that you you sit down when you all get back together for the first time physically sitting in a room the thrill of that and just say to each other they know what if you what did we learn what has been different what's been good about the experience what could we learn as a team and have though one of those don't know how much these occur but really open conversation with no-holds-barred just just throw things around put things on a whiteboard really explore there try and find some of the good in in the challenges you faced up to over the course of the last few months and and I mean the skill to that meeting and and you know getting it right is a big thing and one thing that I just want to deposit as you set that seam going in and this is particularly I think to the male audience it's around authenticity we are often challenged as males to live into a certain style or way of being in the workplace very masculine macho perhaps type of presence in the workplace and evidence is bubbling up all the time about how that can be quite challenging for people in teams and you know I'm just talking about this you know open discussion that you have as a team when you walk in if the leader walks in and says this is my experience and this is what we're going to do you lost all the opportunity that this very curious circumstances presented it comes in and says instead look some strange things happened to me what about you guys tell me about it what could we learn as a team and open up a conversation for exploration and you as the leader be open to listening to what those ideas are thinking about how wild or mad they may seem just just take a perspective and see what happens so yeah oh good something to feed into to the rest of discussion but it's great you touched on the topic of sort of the perspective of leaders as we go back into this as well and no James I would I'm thinking from your point of you're not only managing your own mental health at a moment and preparing for the challenges that you know collines just sort of outlined there but also you've got a team to think about and I'm sure you're spending some time thinking about how you can prepare your business and your you know the things that we'll be doing to facilitate them so can you touch on it from the angle a little bit yeah absolutely good afternoon everyone my name is James hunter and I work for live events technical production company or thorne a global business and house of brands who could psab and yes at that point absolutely in my position as a project director my my normal job or day-to-day routine would be looking after a team of guys across a mixture of platforms whether it's warehouse base or project management or office or home location and whether it's you know the marketing or digital event team or you know there's a huge section of entrants within our business that put together these fantastic events that we're you know we're missing at the moment and in terms of of looking forward and the new normal we're spending a lot of time now re-educating those are still left within the business and I think this is this is my biggest point comment touched on that transparency and how we communicate that it's educating the guys there that the inevitable leaders when when people do start to come back into the ranks and whether it's phased or mass or whatever just having that consistency in not only the messaging but also just the platform of support and having that foundation to then encourage people back in some business you know we're all naturally afraid of of change some people react differently so being able to interpret how people will respond and encouraging just the level of communication that hopefully is what I've found over the past few weeks has been better you know I found that before we might have had a two minute catch-up of pleasantries of pounds of weather in the weekend or did you do something nice and then the next hour would be spent around business chat well I've been fighting with my teams at the moment that it flip of that is the reverse where we're engaging in conversation about their lives of going through what their mental health might be you know the challenges they face in their own diverse situations and I think that's really important that we continue that level of conversation as we build it back into the workplace so yeah a lot of work with with our company at the moment is around educating that we're looking at a six phase process from is listening right the way through to inevitably leading and pushing forward the new direction of the business so it's it's exciting it's encouraging I love coming there mentioning the positives and and reflecting on what people have learned through this because there are positives there and you know even if it's learning through pain there is still something good to come from it it's focusing on that sure you've touched on a really nice point there about you know how the the needs of our employees and our teams may may be changing or you know they may have changed quite significantly and for when they come back to work Gavin you're very used to educating people on mental health and going into workplaces and talking on these subjects and do you think going through this period of you know this unprecedented period that we keep referring to is that gonna change the needs of our teams when they come back to work is that something we need to be aware of justing yeah definitely I think first of all should introduce myself so Gavin Percy I have a business called balancing edges which is training first-aid mental health first aid for adults so I do the two day course the one day course than half the course so that's my business so yeah in terms of of coming back to the new normal the first thing I just like to say is is what is the new normal I think that's one of the challenges we have is the uncertainty of what new normal is and we don't know and there's a lot of uncertainty in general you know in terms of how many companies gonna survive this what does the depression going to look like what is the economy going like all those things never mind our own individual uncertainties around the new normal so those things all need to be taking into account in terms of the needs of the employees coming back to work I think there's a way to spectrum here I think in terms of how companies are currently dealing during furlough with with their teams or even working remotely with their teams and how they're managing that and I think there's a way spectrum some of dealing with it really well in terms of having well-being calls and tens of updating their employees with what's happening with the business and others that are not communicating at all and I think that that is the first step and those who have companies who are not current it communicates you need to think about how they can increase that communication involve the members of staff whether they're working remotely or whether they're furloughed on what's happening with the business and communicate effectively that will meet the return to work much easier and because they feel involved and communicated with and cared for and wanted I think the issues are if that's not happening and they come back to work the the change that's going to involve four people is going to be two very dramatic and even if they have been communicating effectively and using doing those well-being calls there's still this sort of shock of change back to the old normal or the new normal kind of hybrid and into the old normal where you're working from an office again and you're working with teams again and you're expected to deliver by deadlines again which perhaps haven't been happening and going from almost zero to hero if you like being in your back garden four days a week and looking after the kids to suddenly being fooled else at work that's a sudden shock it's bad enough when come back from holidays and having to experience that no make coming back from a seven week furlough or a bit further so those are the things I think need to be clear into consideration I hope that's kind of answered your question yes that's a really nice point and I think that I this is a question that I often get asked when I'm sort of in your shoes and I answer it in a very similar way you touched on sort of communication being really key and I think also communication as well as culture in a businesses is under the rule to making employees feel supported they're making your team feels avoid and I always I always sort of resist giving tactics of how to do that because it's almost intangible it's it's just how you are taught in cities the feeling that you care as an employer or as a manager and make it feel comfortable that they can communicate in that they're taking care of and there's lots of ways to do that but I wanted to come to you James and ask you know your overall thorn it's a big production company obviously lots of personalities and lots of different types of people you take into account have you got any sort of practical things that you put in place as a business that sort of helps to support your employees and are you thinking of maybe changing those or adapting them to accommodate as we don't the new period yeah absolutely I think it starts here and now first and foremost it's not waiting until that moment when people are walking through the door it's okay you know they start for the wrong fellow but you can still have that connectivity there's some some courses of training that we've been running whether it's new product types but that typically starts with just a bit of an info catch up of where the business is and that's sort of people that are still working in the business and people from home that may be furloughed but so you can act on their own and gain from the training so we're trying at all points to get the messaging home now of where we are what we're adapting our businesses changed you know the flick of the switch just in terms of pivoting to a virtual event such as this offering 3d formats and all sorts of things and there is no way that at the moment we can say to our staff that what you will come back to you is what you used to know so really it focuses on on keeping people up to date keeping people aware of the changes whether that's government advice or affiliations coming out you know with their new partnerships and looking at social distancing and how we can actually achieve these these events and but beyond that then when it actually comes to the time that we do face back the teams before people will still be working from home in some areas so having that understanding a personal level of what their personal circumstances is the times of the day that they're that they're accessible to you whether needs to be flexible with working hours their personal social environment really matters as do practical things like their IT connectivity or what equipment that they have at home to be able to do the work you're asking them to do so there needs to be that level of manager personal interaction I believed it to kind of really understand what their particular scenario is and how we can support that and then back into the workplace really for me it's about time it's time and structure I think we need to reintroduce routine and there's not going to be a one-size-fits-all or certain format that this works with but giving people that time to adjust and come back into it before they're thrown in at the deep end and say right guys fantastic we haven't seen you for a week's great to see you you're working on an event tomorrow you're going to be speaking to this client or you need to put this package of kit together and get it in here so we can't expect that to be an immediate thing and it's up to us and our responsibility to bring them back in with enough time that they understand where the business is I understand the changes and then can can do their training or whatever they need to in a particular area to then make them you know ready to go out into the into the world of workplace yeah yeah it's the time the structure and the communication now what we're doing at this moment that it's key for the next few weeks as we think see things change I mean the products of communication thing for me really stood out there I think that's a great point is that we're really trying to get ahead of this and understand that you know the new challenges that your team are going to face when they come back is they're not going to be necessarily coming back to the same roles and you're not necessarily going to be selling even selling the same products and there's gonna be new things to learn and and having the flexibility and understanding of that as a manager and a boss is going to be key and James is it on that yeah the little complication is we we've got customers to deal with in most cases and those customers needs will be changing so not only of your own products or services changed because of what's happened but your customer's needs have changed as well so all of those things add into the mix definitely and Colin this is one for you I think that you know confidence is going to come into play here isn't it I think there's a lot of people that have been you know furloughed or at least maybe running at half capacity for a while even if they know there are people a super busy and you know I can relate but there are there are people that still employ they're working from home but perhaps they're you know they're not having to be under the same pressures that they would be used to and that comes with its own challenges than me and I think when we do inevitably go back to work and Gavin you touch them please we are gonna have to go a little bit from zero as a hero and start you know picking up the pace again how can we sort of support the confidence of our teams and and help them through that sort of challenge bearing in mind that they've you know that they might have lost some momentum over the last few weeks so change craft we think quite closely about that elements of confidence as part of the ability to move forward so if you coming back to to the workplace and individuals and the team and the business is lacking in confidence chances that you're going to make the changes that you need it's going to be challenging so what I would encourage people to think about is is the influences that are going to play out on people as they come back to work and there's the influence of oh we used to do things in a certain way before it'll be very easy just to step back in and try and recreate and be what everybody was before and just slide everybody back into the same pegs and same homes doing the same thing and that loses an opportunity and could be quite difficult and damaging because you've learned a lot during this this process and it will come through with in various stages of of confidence so building the context for them that it's okay to be wherever you are right now and if that's you are struggling with your mentality you are not okay as leaders as managers that may well be you but you've also still got that responsibility to try and create that space for the people to to be that to be uncomfortable to be unhappy to that confidence and to give them a safe landing space and you've taught I mean the team's talk to a lot about the communication side of things and there's a huge amount of skill in and saying the right thing at the right times but for me creating that environmental experience and I think this could happen both are they accompany contextual level youyou mentioned mark culture it's a difficult thing and it was there when we left the business and they'll be there when we get back you might be slightly different but going to work on that and thinking about what it is is a big opportunity for for organizations to review whether it's serving them serving the clients is giving getting out of people what you want and giving to your clients what they want good good you said you asked questions about so just getting to the end of it anyway but hopefully that gives you a little bit of a feel for real you know if you're in a management position or a leadership position there's a lot of responsibilities right now and I feel for you in going into that process so do we get a lot of free thinking a lot of trying to get into the minds a lot of self other type thinking think about yourself and where you're coming from what you're staying and trying to step into those shoes where they might and knowing that they might be pretty low or pretty challenged by the experiences they've just gone through you put out really nicely I think Colin I think that you know as you know from personal experience is very difficult I find it very difficult to gain confidence externally and I recognize it has to come from within and I think that's probably quite consistent with most people and I guess all you can do is as an employer or as a manager is to provide like you say that safe landing space for people when they come back in that you know they're not expected to be perfect straightaway and it's going to take them some time to build up their confidence again and get get back on the horse and then you know start building that self-esteem that they're actually very good at the job they used to do and they're going to be good at the new one there's a skill for managers which is almost impossible to teach but is really valuable at this point in time and its vulnerability bringing your own authentic self into the workplace and being vulnerable right now if you've ever needed it all the time right now really pay dividends to go into the workplace and know that you know whatever is going on for you might well be going on for others and being able to share that and explore some emotional side of of yourself rather than painting that caricature of us being able just to let down that facade on that guard for a while and be a little bit more authentic and vulnerable the people will respond to that and this is a big learning opportunity that I think it's a great point varner ability is often sort of seen as potentially like a bit of a weakness and sometimes impractical but I think it's the key ingredient to breeding empathy and Trust in any other social group or team and to me that that's key to any success of any team or organization so I think you make a great point about that being an important ingredient when we go you come back to work um glad sorry anything's without James we'll go in on that one oh he knows I was just going to uh the humility aspect of it and you know we will not always have the answers to provide to our colleagues our teams or managers doesn't matter which way there's there's going to be questions there at the moment we won't be able to answer and but I really think that you know from a personal point of view it's always been like in this flux in this change at the moment you almost get that level of impostor syndrome where you're trying to will account what you're what you're doing and if you're doing what you're doing right and is it relevant and is it still adding to the business and contributing and that's played for me over the past few weeks and but you've got to be able to you know establish an and then recognize and encourage goals and achievements that may be basic or simple or slightly different because they're not what the person used to do or it's not what you're doing but it's still positive and it's moving forward and it's that kind of just allowing people to have that that space and those colleagues of the support around it whether that's really the cultural or the management to the individual or whatever it is but yeah just being able to recognize that and that people will will be doing that at their own pace as well based on their own backgrounds of all personal situations or anything like that so it's not going to be a templating format of in week one we're going to do this in week 3 we're going to do this but certainly I think a big part that I'll be looking forward is is that structure having things to look forward to things to progress things to achieve recognition within that is about building that trust and that confidence straight back up but it starts with with sharing your own kind of position and vulnerability or having some humility with it I think that's key to any senior management position yeah one thing for me as well to think about I'm not sure if this has been thought about generally or not is this sort of envy or jealous there's going to be of people who were working would be 125 percent against those who were further and actually the other way around were people who were furloughed maybe jealous of you who were working or envious not jealous but working and everyone will have different people have different levels on that scale and we need to manage that as part of the get back to work process on both ways and see how people feel about the other side of people because not everyone's been in furlough not everyone's working so it's a my wife experienced this last week actually somebody who she had not firmly because she thought that was gonna be the best thing for that person was very envious of the people who had been and she said up following her and the lesson learnt there is we should have asked the question so that you know we need to open those communication communicate directly with people and find out how they're feeling about things and then can react to that I asked them the open questions about how they feel then you can react to them but how they feel in the way that they feel and as you said it's not a tick box exercise James it's it's a it's a very this bug exercise because everyone's different and is it it's happening to all of us isn't it this thing but we're all experiencing it in very very different ways and everyone's going through their individual challenges despite the fact that we will experience in the same challenge in many ways and I want you two to finish on a question that's a bit more individual and and so you guys get an opportunity to give a little bit of a case study about you know what you've gone through and and how you've navigated this scenario that we find ourselves in and I just I'll come to you first Colleen what have you learned about mental health and well-being through this crisis and and what do you hope to take into the future off the back of it I have to preface this by saying that my life beforehand was virtually on zoom' anyway my business partner is in in Chicago and spent on technology so that didn't change I'm still working from home and I'm still spending most so the so the flipside of that is family and my business today but my biggest experience has been on the fact that we were just talking before we got on webinar about living 24/7 with two teenagers which has its positives and has its negatives and so on but then the whole connectedness of my family has come together because my parents have had certain isolate high risk we're not speaking once a week with them my uncle in Los Angeles's son be involved in calls and some of the connectedness of people who should be more connected is happening in a better way and I think there are lessons for business there about how with whom we connect them how often and for me that has also led to a rediscovery of what's important what am I really valuing in my life what do I really want from from this business what do I want from my relationship with my partner in Chicago was pretty really good for me and that's what I preached through a businessman I help people find that in their their lives so it's the learning has been around visioning I suppose that's the best way to describe it taking a look at myself where I'd like to see myself everything's been thrown up in the air and things are still up in the air and not just allowing them to fall in exactly the same place in their races in same ways I've learned personally we discovered reaffirmed where I actually think is really important for me now for instance yet for me it's not just about chasing though the bark or being successful as a business but it's a lot about giving back and we've seen a lot of this the change in the way in which people are supporting the NHS and other things that are we are Major Tom being asserted a and things like these these stories are bubbling up about the way people are pulling us together I'd say this is very personal and it's unrelated to the world as a whole but there are lessons if you care to look for them for business in there James anything for you yeah absolutely I mean similar similar line there lots been around community the immediate community actually I think is has grown massively and where I am again speaking from personal circumstance and that's that's been a just a big shift more people just being aware of each other and what's going on and looking out for each other yes social distance yes respecting all of that the rules but that's been a really really good thing to see and and as part of that if you flip it into a into works anomaly momentarily the messaging from the senior leaders I mean as a global business with 14,000 people and so you're dealing with people across Europe Amir and the US and the messaging from the leaders has been really important I think in that regular connective and connections personal messages they're not scripted they're coming from people as we are now sat in a room don't know what the background is t-shirts comfortable honest conversation and what I'd love to see is that continue and it doesn't have to be always about business messaging it's been up but it just feels normal it just feels like you are calling some genuine communication from people that are going to be important about how businesses shape going forward so I'd love to see that kind of continuing and maintain influence beyond this I did you know its regularity is timing and its honesty and I think that's that's really important yeah we talked a lot about the conversations that we've had with with the team goes back to what I said at the start is having a conversation not just a place I am in a business meeting maintaining that it has been wonderful and just the the need for the personal interaction other know how many of you guys are there at the moment have had you know you're these wrinkles where you've all put on some fancy dress where you've been playing a game or you've been doing something that why are we not doing any form of social activity in the normal environment when we're back at work once a week twice a week three times a week can we not do something like that doesn't need to be an hour long doesn't need to be going on a trip or going karting or whatever it needs to be it can just be a simple function where you are socially interacting with your colleagues and your peers because I think that's again from a culture from the family point of view that will help just reestablish the bonds of whatever business we're in when we come back and just help unify the team together and build forward from that solid platform that I talked about yeah really and and Gavin are you popped out for a second there so I'll just reiterate the question for you with we're just saying and what have you can you can you hear me I'm getting across I'm telling you I think Gavin's having some technical difficulties and in that case can I can I jump in and say something absolutely so because I've been listening to it all and absolutely fascinating and you know one of the things that has appealed the most to me was I think it was Colin who said there's the opportunity for self-examination and just to look at yourself and you know where you're going what you want how you might get there because for the first time we're all in the same boat I mean there have been many times in my life where I've tried to do that but you're so busy chasing your tail and trying to keep you know your personal career on track and you're looking at what everybody else is doing around you and other people are either overtaking you know it is a much friendlier environment at the moment I've been fascinated by how much collaboration there has been how willing people are to help how fundamentally open people have become you know in in businesses that are usually quite competitive you know and unwilling to information you know people have been quite open about things that have gone horribly wrong but also things that are going really really well so you know I think that's a really important point that was made by commented just if one can I mean if you weren't furlough that's a great opportunity because you might have some time in amongst all the mayhem with kids and so on but just to think about actually what about this have a liked and have found positive and how do I keep that and which bits am I not liked and have found quite stressful and make sure that those don't impede later on so I think that was a great lesson and then I just also wanted to comment on the whole the social interaction thing I have a friend who works in Sweden for IKEA and but she says there's this wonderful thing that it's absolutely sacrosanct four o'clock everybody breaks the cake and coffee and it's really found about she you know she lived there for ages and she kept getting into trouble because she'd make meetings and then over an a bit you know I'm you know these kind of things and people would be tapping her on the shoulder going you know it's four o'clock you don't skip this everybody gathers in the kitchen and it's literally ten minutes that's it ten minutes done all back to the desk and once she got into the rhythm of it she thinks it's the most brilliant thing because they don't talk about work it's just chat yeah that's making time for that stuff so when we all get back into the hurly-burly of it again cuz we will eventually we must try not to forget some of this stuff that we've really liked that was forced upon us but we need to hold onto some of that stuff yeah something I've been actually is it's very easy to look back at life before lockdown and think it was all perfect and yeah I know how everyone else is you know experience and perspective was on life before lockout for me I wasn't super happy to be honest I was I was going through a bit of a tough time and and coming into lockdown I actually felt a bit of a lift and felt an opportunity to reflect and to just slow down a little bit and to focus on what matters and that did me the world of good but I actually imagine myself now six months down the line looking back at lockdown and I think I'll miss it a little bit in many ways and I think there's there is an element of the grass is always greener I mean it's one of those sayings that we learnt as a child and never really appreciated at the time but I think the more you go through life and the more you kind of you start to understand exactly what that's that that sounds like that mean and I've come to appreciate that one a lot at the moment and you know I think there are positives in every scenario and there aren't you know great things to focus on and a lot of those have been highlighted today so I am back on all of you again guys sorry I came a laptop decided to completely crash I'm now my phone so my apologies for that my apologies for having to read oil in there was two things I was going to say for that question one was the quote that I think is great that personifies all this is you can't change the direction of the wind but you can change the direction of your sails and I think that is something we've all got to remember the wind is blowing our holy out there at the moment but we can change the direction of our sails and take advantage of that where we can and the businesses that are changing the direction of their sails are the ones that will be successful the people who are changing the direction of the sails are the people who will be successful after all this and the second thing I wanted to say about it was the positive for me is that mental health been brought up the agenda much higher as a result of this because people understand it's affecting people's well-being and there's no less of a stigma attached well mental health and well-being as a result of all this as well so that's got to be a positive that's come out of this it's being talked about much more openly it's been talked about in a much more positive way and all that it's got to be great for the future so those are the two things I wanted to add in my apologize for not being on type of mine for a few minutes there so I've written down a couple of things that stood out for me throughout the panel and I just wanted to reiterate couple of those before I hand back to UK and one of stood out was the products of communication thing and this is important you know mainly as leaders but also as as anyone that's part of a team you know sharing how you're feeling and any sort of apprehensions you have about going back to work or what lay ahead getting ahead of it and communicating that now before it becomes a reality I think that really stood out for me I think it was James that shared that one and also you know flexibility and understanding as as managers and as leaders that you know people are going to be perfect when they come back to work and how we can accept that and give them the space that they need to build confidence and self-esteem and get back on their horse and then finally finding new ways one thing I joke said that stood out again to me was with at the moment we lack in that theme that positive feedback loop of you know achievement and often in business that is sales and revenue and finding new clients and that kind of thing which a lot of which isn't necessarily happening at the moment and may not happen when we do go back to work and but that doesn't mean we're not doing good work that doesn't mean we're not doing things that worth celebrating and finding new ways to bring that positive feedback looking that people you and your teams are still performing he's going to be key and it doesn't have to be the positive feedback loop doesn't have to be a new sale it doesn't have to be a new client it can be other things and how can we be creative to make sure the people's work is is being valued and we're feeling like the stuff that we're doing on a daily basis is is worthwhile a really good point yeah so with further ado I'll hand back to you Claire that brings out handles were close okay thank you very much thank you mark for facilitating and thank you so much Colin James and and Gavin and I thought that was fantastic really really interesting and very timely as people are starting to slowly move back into the workplace I think it's gonna take a while and I do think there is going to be a very sort of strong feeling of between those people who have had to work all the way through and those people who have been furloughed and then also sort of possibly a collective guilt for those people who have lost their jobs you know this is will have lost colleagues along the way and so you know there's gonna be some very strong emotions out there on top of which we'll be trying to socially distance on transport and so on so I think interesting times but I think you know we we will find the positives and I think the new culture that is as emerged out of all this will surely help us so thank you all of you and thank you for those who attended just to remind you that this will be available on the f-con website as of lunchtime tomorrow but if you have any comments or suggestions you'd like to send us about any future topics you'd like to see covered please feel free to do so and thank you all very much and goodbye for now thank you I