hello and thanks very much to claire and amelia for joining me to discuss diversity equity inclusion and policy and practice from a business visits and events perspective um so i'm going to hand over to you both to introduce yourselves and to tell us a little bit about epcon okay well i'll go first hi i'm claire fenelow i'm the executive director of evcom and i actually joined uh january last year um which was an interesting time to join the new job and then there is emilio who's my colleague hi i'm amelia and i'm the marketing and communications executive at evcom virtual table of business visits and events partnership so a key partner and active on the diversity equity inclusion task force that we've got so this is an opportune time really to um reflect on where we are as bvp but of course as a partner efcom have had their own journey um so what does diversity equity inclusion mean to evcon well i i think from from our perspective we were very aware that it that it meant inclusion and diversity across the board um so so it's from age uh race gender sexuality disability issues um you know it's a vast uh arena um and we're only a small organization so across that we've we've i suppose not decided uh you know full stop but we've taken a view that we're concentrating at the moment on um race and young people so next gen and race yeah thank you i mean it is as you said is a vast area so and so you've got to pick the areas that you could perhaps can make a biggest difference um too yeah and also it has to sort of fit in with you know when you're small organizations is what you've got the capabilities of doing and and and what's within your remit to be able to do um and then you try to marry those things because then you then you've got impetus yeah yeah so why why is the diversity equity inclusion important to to efcom i mean you said you're a small organization mantle i think it's you know there's a huge lack of diversity in our sector and we straddle both corporate film and corporate events um from in terms of our membership and on both sides of those industries we see a huge lack of diversity uh particularly sort of black people people of color disabled people lgbtqia plus community all of those communities are underrepresented so i think it's it's important but it's also really necessary um and especially you know we look at these creative industries that we're part of which are so diverse um and we need to make sure that the organizations you know the membership associations and and the leaders that we you know are putting on on pedestals are representative of the sector that we're in so i think that's yeah that's why it's uh something that we're really pursuing at the moment yeah and and sort of leads into you know if if we're wanting to change things change often starts with the next generation so for us that seemed like a logical way to go to also introduce new new blood into the sector and new ideas new thinking um and then you tie that in with your diversity and inclusion uh um policies and initiatives and then that works really really well together yeah so what policies do you have uh have come if you call it that or or well we took the opportunity last year to sort of look at what what existed in their common we we chose to rewrote rewrite our code of ethics and give it a a a new uh focus around diversity but i think what we we decided on quite early on it was that it's it's all well and good having policies and they sit there on your website but the the best way to to demonstrate your policies and your ethics is to actually do something um so it's you know showing intent so that what you're offering as an association you're living and doing um so you know we we we signed on to um a few uh policies and actions which amelia can possibly tell you a little bit more about but we decided that we needed to pick one or two things and and create actions yeah i mean you are an association so you're not a business and a lot of things are focused on an organization where you employ people and everything else so how how do you how do your policies sit with your members how do you encourage them to to as you said understand what they are and and then move on to what action they actually take well it's all part of being a member you know we encourage before people join that they make sure that they familiarize themselves with our code of conduct our code of ethics um and that they are signing up to those so by becoming a member they're agreeing to play their part where they can and and if we call on them for help assistance advice support um taking part in activities that that they will do so so they have becoming members they have agreed with that yeah so what sort of activities have you been able to generate and what's been the support from your members so i guess in terms of the actions that we're you know we're looking at we last year we published a diversity and inclusion commitment uh following a sort of the resurgence of the black lives matter movement um and so some key uh sort of things in that were a free membership for black individuals and and teams uh and black owned agencies and things like that um until the end of 2021 uh we committed to doing various workshops free workshops for young people um and hopefully going into kind of we're slightly on hold at the moment because of cobit obviously um but going into schools and you know as claire said uh starting that that a younger age and kind of trying to engage young diverse people in our sector and in what we do um accessibility is also something we've been working on so looking at holding events in you know accessible venues uh using image descriptions on instagram uh sign language interpreters we're committed to having one of conference um working with venues that have strong csr credentials and making sure that's a consideration when we're choosing venues uh and also working towards having a more diverse board because i think that's an area where we're really struggling to have that representation that uh you know we'll talk a little bit later about the shadow board um which is uh one of our newer initiatives to try and tackle that uh from the ground up yeah so so lots of activity you've been very active as one of the partners so i'm a great example just to to show up to be honest that's about what been your challenges what are your challenges in this arena well well for us it's just you know it's amelia and i um it's it's always a resource issue always you know because at the same time we're we are running an association that holds conferences and multiple awards programs and manages a membership and webinars and content and and and which i'm sure everybody who runs an association knows that there's a lot of stuff that goes along so it's just resource and then of course because of uh the situation we found ourselves in with the pandemic you know everyone's been financially hit um people are cutting costs where they can where we would normally maybe have got sponsorship to do certain things that's been really difficult um you know membership has taken a little hit not not terrible but a little um but normally we would hold events and you could you could publicly show more what you were doing i suppose and in that way gather finances so that that's tricky um on the other hand what we have found during this time is um people are a lot more open to collaboration and and i and i feel quite strongly for for a small organization that's the way amelia and i have chosen to to really try and put our um our uh um strength towards and our attention towards because we've found everybody's quite keen to join forces and to try and work together and and you know to create something bigger than our parts so um we're hampered by maybe not being able to make a bigger splash in in some areas that we'd like to do but on the other hand we're finding a lot of support and a lot of help and a lot of um good will to help us make these things happen and that goes a long way because it goes a really long way when you feel that people are on side and and want to help but yeah yeah resource and money always i mean have you seen any attitudinal challenges or have you had quite a lot of support yeah i think we've seen a huge amount of support honestly um people have really been behind it people have been really keen to um support and give advice uh you know and and and help out i think it's something that a lot of people that we're working with it's really front and center in their minds yeah i mean we're pushing against an open door everybody's aware of the problem and and wants to help and wants to fix it but i think for companies you know their eye is on their bottom line and they're keeping their staff and just keeping afloat um and uh so whilst i think yep great idea it can be slightly intimidating it's a big subject um they don't quite know where to start sometimes and again it's time and where to start so they're very keen to help when someone else does it so that's us where we can yeah so what have been your successes uh i'd say um sort of two of our kind of uh our key successes i would say would be the the focus award is one of them uh which we started last year uh and it was an award for 18 to 25 year old uh black filmmakers and filmmakers of color um they were asked to send in a short film um and everyone who was shortlisted got access to some kind of mentorship opportunity uh so that was sort of an afternoon session where they had a chance to get feedback on their film uh and also ask questions about the corporate film industry um and then uh the overall winner got a year's worth of mentorship uh with three of the top corporate film companies um so that was that felt like a really uh a great step forward and we're going to be doing that annually and we're also going to be launching uh an events version of that award this year um and our other initiative that i think we're quite proud of is the shadow board um which is again uh 18 25 year olds um uh from a range of diverse backgrounds um and it's about uh you know setting up a shadow board that can feed perspective ideas uh into the senior board and can contribute uh you know and hopefully we'll be able to make some of their ideas happen you know ideas they have for events ideas they have for how we need to communicate um and so it's about kind of yeah engaging young people in evcon but also trying to engage young people in our sector uh because i think a lot of people you know they think of festivals when you think of events and they don't know about the corporate uh event sector in the same way and the same in the film sector people know about feature films but not not necessarily corporate films so i think it's about uh sort of trying to change that and trying to reach the right people um so we're trying to be really active uh in in that and and the the hope is that you know as these young people work and go through their own growth um we could potentially move them we hope up into the senior board as representatives or one or two of them at least so that they actually uh sit on the on the main board and can start to really really influence what goes on um and and i would also add that there's the shadow board we've tried um to make sure that it it's truly representative um and you know that covers gender race socio economic background um sexual orientation the whole because it's it's particularly as we've come out of this pandemic i think so much has changed and i think what everybody is going to realize is that the voices of the young are what will guide us going forward particularly around technology and consumption and the way media is used and how people view things and interact with things and the whole experiential nature of stuff we really really need to listen and if they are part of our um environment and it's just like an other group out there you know we're really going to miss out on a lot of um creativity and and and drive and push that they bring they bring um into a room so yeah it's really exciting we're we're it was all happening tomorrow we're launching with our shadow boarders meeting our main board and that for the first time so yeah that's really exciting so if that's that's something to um look at and to share if it works because you know it's a risk you're taking it might not work but um it will caroline it will it'll be brilliant it's certainly well and you're lucky that in a way you can select that board whereas your main board you can't sell you you first you can't select yeah yeah and because you know these young people have sort of self-selected themselves you know they're the enthusiastic they they think they've got something to offer you know that they've put themselves forward so you know they're in the right frame of mind yeah fingers crossed so that's really my answering my my uh next question isn't it um you've already set set it up for the future haven't you um we're sure it'll um we will have to make changes and we'll have to adapt and you know it might morph into something else because you know as you say it it it's it's a new um trial thing um so it it may turn into something else through time but we're hoping that the the people on the board the the shadow board will guide us in that you know it so it becomes the thing that works for them rather than the thing that works for us you know we have to uh make sure it's it's working for them as well as i'll say it can't just be about evcom yeah and that's an interesting paradigm isn't it is what is the future going to be like because associations have a very clear structure and in a way we want to disrupt that in a in a positive way and so it has sustainability and and can be resilient for whatever's thrown out back pandemic yeah well i'm a firm believer in disruption i have to say i think um associations uh who represent sectors you know need to need to be moving and need to be slightly more uh nimble and and free to foot than they perhaps sometimes are because we you know we do get i hate to say the word bog down but there is a certain amount of you know you can feel slightly uh restricted by what expectation and what people think you should be doing and sometimes it's just you have to be bold and just go out and do it and take black afterwards um i mean in terms of diversity inclusion as amelia said a lot of what bvp has done has been kickstarted by black lives matter last year and yeah we've seen that that positive as you said opening of the door to actually do something but it's well what is it we're going to do and and people i've already had a little bit of feedback in terms of oh it's di again or a sustainability and some people are getting tired by it is this something do you think that we'll ever be in a position that we don't need to label something as diversity equity and inclusion um because things have actually changed yeah i'm not sure and or i think at least not for a very long time but i do think the focus of of how we define di is is always going to be shifting um and and so i expect that will change i think you know we've over the last couple of decades we've had a focus on on women and representation of women there's still many much that needs to be done there but you know that's that's improved a lot now i think there's a focus on on race and i think that's fantastic and hopefully soon we'll see a focus on on trans people and creating more gender inclusive events you know um and so but i think society is always changing so there's always going to be a need to adapt our dei policies to these changes and and to you know the the people that we're working with so i i imagine there'll always be some need for it but i don't necessarily think that's a bad thing uh you know to always be engaged in striving for active change and i also think we all need to be reacting faster i mean you know i was talking to amelia just the other day like saying you know when i was younger it was all about getting women um on boards and in the boardroom and at senior levels and i can look back now at my age and think right well strides have been made but dear god it's taken 25 years you know and that that's too long that is too long and we can't afford to spend that long on every every group that we're trying to include you know it just needs to be inclusive all of it and we just need to have to change our frame of references and our frame of mind and just say we need to be inclusive across everything and then and then hopefully it we we will need to take 25 years to get to the next stage because that's no good no no and i think you're right that's that's where we started off the story with it's such a broad area um but actually it narrows down to the fact it's about us and our attitude in our approach and the way that we deal with people we're a people industry aren't we so and i do think it's interesting you get these like seismic moments like you know black lives matter that really changed gear and i think for a lot of people that um turned it from a uh we really should do something about this to uh right now we have to do something and i think you know it galvanized people and it's unfortunate that you have to get to that stage but it has accelerated things i think which is a good thing yeah so thank you both very much for your um insights um and we'll tell you how it goes but particularly your your enthusiasm as you said it has to have committed people have to have people who lean forward and support and take that take those risks yeah and we need our our sector to reflect uh you know the people around us we can't we can't continue if you're working in the media and you are reflecting it with stories and film and events and uh brand experience it's got to reflect the population yeah and not just in front of the camera or in the customers of our events but but everyone goes everywhere yeah right thank you both very much and i will see you soon thanks caroline thank you