okay so welcome everybody um to this session this afternoon bridging the support gap in the meetings events accommodation sector um this session is bought in collaboration from hba and also evcom um and it's been recorded and the recording will be available to everybody um after tomorrow lunch time if you're wanting to ask any questions please put them in the chat box and martin um we'll hopefully have time to get to them and we can obviously discuss them um this session you know we've carefully selected um our panelists today and we're delighted to have an array of panelists to support us and really to talk about the journey of where identifying um gaps in our industry they've gone on to actually provide and bridge those gaps with different services products and supporting us um not just through these challenging times but also prior to that and and beyond as well um we're delighted that martin fullard of conference news is moderating the session and again we carefully um selected martin as somebody that's been a real support to this industry um over these times and and clearly um identified that support and prior to that as well so we felt that martin was the perfect choice for us to to moderate this session um i am going to hand over to martin to take you through the session and as i say if we've got any time for questions and answers at the end then brilliant but for the next um few minutes i'm going to pass over to martin so thank you thank you lee and uh what a lovely introduction as well about anyone else i'm absolutely knackered and this pandemic uh okay guys so i'm delighted to be joined by an esteemed uh panel which i'm going to ask to introduce themselves in just a moment's time uh just with the housekeeping obviously please everyone make sure you remain on mute we don't want uh any sound interruptions coming through to disrupt the panelists and of course just to reiterate questions we want those in the questions box at the end we might see if we can bring you up to the stage and get you to ask your question in person towards the end but we will be doing that towards the end of the session i will be monitoring now just to reiterate the objective of today's panel is to debate and discuss support measures in our industry now the panelists all have senior roles and i'll be asking them how they've identified that more support has been required for other people working in the sector now they're all leading in or taking part in providing supporting services and offering guidance with their expertise and they really have been absolutely at the forefront of making sure our industry is as prepared as possible to deal with whatever challenges are thrown up so i'm going to now ask the panel to introduce themselves obviously you don't want to hear from me too much that's why you're here so let's start with nell please introduce yourself to our audience thanks martin i'm nell flint i am the chief operating officer of bookmark reading charity and i've worked in the meeting and events industry for 25 years until the end of last year last summer i had a bit of an epiphany and decided that i wanted to work for a charity i'm here today to represent fast forward 15 which i'm sure lots of people have heard of and i'm a mentor for this coming years excellent stuff thank you nell helen please introduce yourself to our audience yeah absolutely my name's helen moon i'm the ceo and founder of eventwell which is the event industries charitable social enterprise and we're here to educate campaign and support better mental health and wellbeing in the events industry thank you helen ashanti please tell tell us who you are good afternoon everyone my name is shanti i am one half of diversity ally and we provide diversity and inclusion support to the global events industry and i'm also the ceo at event mind and we help companies choose and use the right event technology thank you very much ashanti angie hi everybody um i'm andrew mason um my intro will probably be much longer than everybody else is on the basis i'm probably twice everybody's age um but i started my first agency uh 1991 um since then have been acquired and been with the top uh 20 uk full service agency 2005 uh started with absolute corporate events and still there and this year i have launched meeting all-stars um which is where the support piece comes in today in the wider industry uh founder member of hbaa chair 2003 2019 um i've been on the board of mpi uh the meeting show advisory board and outside of the industry i mentor for the prince's trust and i have my own little consultancy uh for business mentoring for five goodness me how do you fit all that on a business card very long very important and uh last book by no means least emma please hi i'm emma cartmell and i've been in industry for just over 20 years i think and we organize a range of events that connect hotels and venues with event buyers and connect the supply chain and the two main events that we have is um the chs leeds conference hospitality show and our next debate in october is chs birmingham our launch event in the midlands good stuff okay so i think what we'll do first is maybe set a little bit of context out there so we can all understand where we're coming from and uh you know who knows who's going to be watching this recording back when it goes out afterwards so we did send some questions around and i'd like to sort of combine questions one and two and i'd like to get a response from each of you on this so nell i'm gonna pick on you to start now tell us how did you enter the industry to begin with and when you did enter it do you feel that you were treated differently as a woman than you would have done if you joined in today's society so um i left home when i was 18 and went to work in a family owned and run hotel on a tiny little scottish island of the hebrides um that was kind of my first um industry role um but i guess at that point no we were just treated as a member of the family and when i then got a management trainee position with a what was then a major a chain hotel then yes definitely i'd say i was treated differently there was a huge culture in that particular hotel property of a boys club male gm male ops manager male 1 b manager um and i think i was probably 25 at the time and looking back at the way that those gentlemen behaved i think now i would be horrified they would be called out and there was definitely um an element of the women that worked in the hotel were second second-class citizens um and i think yeah looking back it was it was horrific some of the things that were said and done to her to the female remember goodness me how how has the industry then supported your journey to date i think i've been um very lucky in that i've always worked for uh great bosses um i've had a range of bosses both male and female i think um at my last uh agency working for computer shopping events then i was very lucky to have a ceo james parkhouse who was always very supportive of women progressing through the agency um and again working at zygren um i'm very open about the fact that my son was an ivf baby and whilst i was going through ivf treatment vibrant were incredibly supportive and very very flexible with everything that i needed to do so i've been lucky but i know that not not everybody has had that journey quite so then same question then to to you helen interested how did you sort of enter our industry and you know did you feel that you were treated differently as you would perhaps done if you joined today uh um yeah i can relate to an awful lot of what mel's just said actually so i'm one of those that fell into the industry by accident i was a pa so you know even working as a pa and secretary that comes with complications in it particularly when you look after an all board looking for a page job and was offered an event coordinator job i suppose my early career i didn't really notice it too much because i kind of did a bit of i think being black and female is a little bit of a different dynamic in most industries but also this one and before i used to try to if i could hide the fact that i was back for as long as possible so do a lot of interaction on email and phone until we absolutely had to meet in person however i would say in the recent times i felt more comfortable and it's probably sometimes a little bit advantageous because of the fact that i care so much about diversity it's also responsibility for me not to hide the fact that i'm black in our business interactions as well so it's been a mixed experience overall and as i say sometimes it's kind of a double entendre because i'm also a woman but i'm also black which can be new for a lot of people in the events industry yeah we'll follow up on that shortly when we've got another question on that and we want to learn more about diversity ally for sure angie could i ask you then you know how did you enter the industry and did you feel you were treated differently back then and how does that compare today um i'm certainly not going to tell you the long version of how i got into the industry because it involved being a bar maid and cheating in a pub quiz um but essentially it's interesting because in the last 32 years um 25 of them have been the my own boss the other seven um i got into the industry i started working for mail owned agency in 1988 um and i was overtly expected to uh go and have dinner with male clients um when we're on appointments in london with you know with the boss um it would be expected ordinary that i would be happy to go into some of the more exotic shops in soho so he could have a little browse around and bun slapping and misogyny it just sounds horrendous now but we're talking 198 1988 and then when um my own company uh got merged with a much bigger agency uk full service agency that was male owned as well and the aggressive business culture um was just shocking um to the point where you know i was on a five-year contract and i left after four years i just couldn't do it so then i you know since then i've stayed my own boss um and hopefully had given the support because you said you know you've asked what support did the industry give and to be fair i don't feel i got any support from the industry at that time and when the associations started to uh pop up that was probably the first time the industry as a whole um began to support but that was more business support not individual support so i'm really pleased that we've moved on to where we have today yes absolutely emma then what about you let's hear your story tell us how you try to join the industry and you know how that sort of compares to if you perhaps would have joined it today yeah i mean my story is very different and i don't know if it's my perception of the world but i'm all just unfortunate that i have none of those stories around um having to put with with behavior don't just because i don't have to or because i'm quite open in terms of calling them bad behavior out and in any kind not just about um you know how people treat women about everything so i joined the industry in the year 2000 and i guess another angle might be i started i entered the industry as a business owner i set up my own event management company so i could um i guess spend you know invest time with people who i chose to invest time with i wasn't subjected to anything because i wasn't i didn't have a boss to do certain things for or or what have you and so i mean even now there are people in the industry who make um remarks that they shouldn't be making or they have expectations but regardless of the scenario i would call it out and um say at the moment in time and i've actually i've been in an exhibition hall um and i'm trying to think was it i don't think it was one of my events or yours uh martin but um you know no not yours they're not matches but i think it might be more global events where someone said something really inappropriate um and there was people around and i called it out and it said that's absolutely you know and i actually shouted at the person and said you know kind of absolutely not we're not having that and one thing i've always done with my team is said to them you you call it out and if a client no matter how much they pay us no matter how important that client is if they're inappropriate you know and if somebody i mean we've had a situation where somebody's physically being inappropriate with somebody um and this and um said you know kind of if you even if you want to punch that person for doing that i'm always going to back you nobody has the right to touch you in any circumstance so i'm not saying it doesn't happen but i'm saying my experience is different because i will i will always um um or you know put it out in the open and encourage my team to do the same i think it's probably where my when i'm different or where my experience has been different extraordinary revelations goodness me uh let's let's move the conversation on then and i think that the next question i think nell will neil and emma i think i'll come to you with with this one uh where and in what form have you received any resistance to kind of the services of support that you've been able to kind of bring forward now maybe we could start with you so from the fast forward 15 perspective um faye sharp started fast forward 15 in 2014 um and i remember reading an article i did try to find it um on the web this morning but it's been deleted and it was a um a guy that owned a smaller travel agency who had written an article around the fact that he thought fast forward 15 had its day and that all female mentor schemes were sexist and i remember reading the article at the time and being absolutely um horrified and very very angry um i think there are some people on this uh session today that that know me quite well um and i think they would absolutely back me up i can see georgia smiling um because i am a an ardent feminist and there is every need for fast forward 15 and there is every need for women supporting women um and i think that i remember writing a comment on the article at the time that perhaps um this white middle-class male needed to check his privilege um and i think that as a white middle-class woman i also need to understand my own privileges as we all do um because i think ashanti made a really valid point that the industry still needs to grow in diversity and inclusion and that just isn't a bad matter and i think that's where fast forward 15 and has made some really good steps forward over the past couple years as well yeah i absolutely agree i think faye's done a cracking job she's a neighbor of mine actually she lives in the next village a few moments away and i think she's done done fantastically an interesting comment from caroline in the in the chat box there that she's even had women refusing to promote fast forward 15 because they thought it was sexist so that's an interesting sort of sort of take on it but certainly you know i have a place on record that you know the coverage i've given it i think it's absolutely invaluable and i know a lot of the mentees have absolutely raved about it it's given them such a source of confidence and inspiration long may it continue um i mean i i think it is that just that last valid point martin that it is about confidence and all of the the five applicants that i interviewed over the course of the last week every single one of them talked about the fact that they wanted to be a mentee this year to increase their confidence and i think that's something that is really important emma what about you yeah i think any opportunity um in any industry but certainly ours to lift anybody up and support anybody and yes we absolutely need things like fast forward 15. i guess again i'm quite [ __ ] unfortunate but i'm the kind of person that will always ask for help if i if i need it and i'm not for and i think that's the key thing is that male or female if we need support in getting somewhere we just have to put our hands up and yes to be some people who won't support us um but that says more about them than us so things like you know um lee for example who's on um hosting this this today is on my advisory board i have other mentors i've always had business coaches so for me it's kind of ingrained in me uh to ask for help if i need it and it's not a weakness and i think that anybody it's it's within us all we can all lift somebody up we don't have to i remember um being kind of a leadership role in a volunteer voluntary position when i was quite young and learning how to kind of lead when you're not the most senior person that's a great skill in terms of we can all show leadership in any environment we can all lift other women up we can all just take a moment to say that's an amazing thing that you're doing or even jump on a call if someone needs some specific help so i think from great like formal uh mentorship schemes like fast forward 15 to doing things like this this is all about lifting each other up and saying we're doing an amazing job we're out there and we're kicking ass and such like so yeah i think anything that we can do it's kind of it's on us to do it yeah absolutely i'm obviously conscious of time and obviously there's so much so much important information we need to we need to discuss so ashanti i want to come back to you now with a view to talking about diversity ally why did you feel the need to sort of bridge that gap and what was i guess the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of you moving from working within the industry to effectively providing a service yeah absolutely you know it's funny actually i think it's it's always just about if you can taking accountability so i i recognize that although i was doing this work in the background by not being visible and continually raising awareness about it i i wasn't really building the platform providing and holding space for anybody of any difference that could be non-binary individuals it could be young event professionals to also put themselves out there and be visible really and so i i think i just took it on as a responsibility and felt that i needed to be accountable to myself but also to other people who might be different and provide this space for them um to access resources that can be a help but also for the industry how how could i make this as simple and easy as possible for companies agencies organizations to really look at diversity and inclusion and not just from you know putting an another woman on a panel but being really thinking about culture within the industry so that individuals can come in they can thrive whether they're employed or indeed running their own business there's some interesting points that emma made regarding the fact that being a business owner is a different kind of experience and i'm fortunate in that because i've always run my own business i have more latitude i have more flexibility i can control my narrative a bit more but for individuals who are going into the corporate side of the industry or working for large agencies they have less control over the workplace culture that they experience and that's why diversity ally is so important because we're helping those organizations to just be more aware but also do practical things that can make it easier for all to thrive in the workplace because i will say this the workplace in the uk is not the most welcoming place for a white male either the generation for which the workplace was created has died you know the workplace is actually broken in terms of culture as it is so obviously if you're there for a woman you add in disability sexuality all of those other intersectionalities the workplace just becomes a little bit more of a difficult space to navigate so we're here just to make it easier to make it simple for the industry to understand um that we could be so much more better if we did embrace diversity proactively yeah can i ask thing quick quickly because i i when did i interview you first it must have been about nearly a year ago i think it was that year of life she's gone uh what what should have been the the feedback on diversity ally how's it been received by the industry you know very well so the organizations who have committed to their employees to do something are doing the work with us um and and that's what i will say the ones who committed to doing something have actually invested in doing the work i do you know recently obviously it was international women's day and we had a whole week of activity it was interesting to see see companies still publish blogs and roundups that were not diverse and i think some of that is habit and some of it is habit but it's really important that we remember when we talk about particularly gender diversity we have to include all women not just white women not just middle class white women what about the younger white women there are some amazing event professionals who are young just leaving university include them in the conversation including their prospective disabled event professionals asian event etc etc so progress is happening it absolutely is however i think sometimes we default into old habits and that's what i observed last week in some of the the items i saw published in terms of content yeah absolutely that's really interesting uh helen i'd like to kind of come back to you now and and ask going back to when you sort of entered the industry had the services that you're providing now been available then what difference do you think that that perhaps would have made wow there i say this all the time so every time i talk about event well and explain what we do and why we're here and why we're doing it and who i help i always say if event well had been around in 1997 when i'd have started my career perhaps my career had looked it might have looked at those dark periods that i've been through as someone who has had a mental health condition all of her life but was only diagnosed properly with it like 10 10 11 years ago so yeah absolutely if the event will have been there offering the education and the support and the information and resources that event world does now absolutely it would have made a massive difference to me and i have countless colleagues and people i know in the industry where it would have made a big difference to them every one of us if we admit it truthfully and put our hands on our heart truthfully from a mental health and wellbeing perspective we've experienced burnout at some point in our careers where we've just got to the point where we're exhausted and we're tired and red we're just overwhelmed we've all experienced that and that's what event while is here to address and provide information and resources around and even if it's not us we all have a colleague or we know someone who disappeared for two weeks and went on a last minute holiday so we've all had either a direct experience or an indirect experience as someone struggling with their mental health and well-being and remember that previous to 2017 the event was starting we did not talk about mental health and well-being in our industry their their go fault their default start position was if you can't hack it if you can't handle the pressure of working in events and go and work in another industry that very work hard emma touched on it and show you that work hard play hard and angie touched on it as well that mentality of long hours travel all that kind of stuff that is a part of our industry but you know events are pressured and the project management element of what we do is pressure but it doesn't have to be as stressful um as it is and that's down to culture shanties mentioned culture mental health and well-being in organizations culture is one of the most important things that can impact so negatively on people and it is a difference the difference between people thriving or people surviving and it comes down to the culture of the organizations that we're working in and the culture within our industry and that's where diversity ally as well as event while that's this is a change that we're looking to impact and make a difference so absolutely i say it time and time again if event well had been there when i started um it yes it would have helped not only me as someone who's i don't know what it's like to not live with a mental health condition okay i'm i've had it all of my life so it would have made a massive difference to me and i know so many so many people other people they would have made a massive difference to them as well well it's good to see i know that everyone in this virtual room would you know supports each other so you know let's you know there is certainly encouraging signs that we are all looking out for each other at the moment and yeah it can be a very lonely place a very lonely place and angie what about what about you you know you mentioned that you know you for four years you you had to pull out of a five-year contract after four years you know you were working in what i think you described as toxic environments do you think if the support had been available back then things might have been different um support that actually if i go back to when i just when i first started um i was a single mum and so to start a company then i knew what i did well i knew my venue finding i knew how to look after customers um but what i didn't know was how to run a business and you've just you just touched on it yourself martin it can be a really really lonely place and you know the the pain that that you suffer the lack of confidence the doubt the tiredness that the burnout that helen was talking about so where i'm coming from at the moment and had what uh like meeting all stars what we provide been around then which is more about business support and personal coaching than the the pain barriers that i went through at that point and they were you know i i shudder when i think back but i'm really proud the best thing i ever did was start my own business um but now if i'd had then sort of procedural standards governance uh commercial protocols help with cash flow as well as coaching or that sense of community then it would have been such a different place you know as it is i've toughed it out um and managed to to come to a point where i really want um and take great pride in in trying to help and support and as emma says lift up anybody that you can because it's that's what it's all about it's confidence and support yeah absolutely i've got another couple of questions left on my list but i just want to remind everyone we obviously love to hear your questions too so if you either want to pop a question in the q a box or if you want to use the reactions raise hands button we can maybe unmute you and bring you onto the stage but we do want to hear what uh what everyone has to say as well uh next question i guess who do i aim this for emma why don't we come back to you uh how are you sort of inspired to continue to provide kind of services and support to make someone a better person and to be the best version of themselves regardless of their background or their gender or whatever i think i think a lot of it's actually just maybe in me and if i can maybe go back a lot of years i remember um applying promotion i used to work with electric board which was very male dominated and i applied for promotion and got it and my boss at the time blocked it because he didn't want to lose me from his department and it was quite a big promotion that i didn't get and kind of managed to negotiate a bit of promotion for myself out of it and that was my complete lack of experience at the time now i'd have kicked up an absolute stink i was only in my late teens early 20s but i remember what it feels like to have that blocked and it was a really big thing because i actually really wanted to move and that cash um salary increase would have helped me to do that so it wasn't just the fact that i didn't get the job it meant that then i was stuck in a house that or a flat that i didn't want to be in and i always come back to that and i just think i will never ever stand in someone's way of realizing their own potential and i've had people who've come to me and said emma i've been offered an amazing job i'm really sorry but i'm gonna you know i want to take it i'm like absolutely i you know i never want to see anyone go but i'm not going to stand in your way you go with my absolute blessing i've had people who want to start their own business and said absolutely let me help you let me be the support and you that you talk about let me help you with your business plan let me be a friend to you let me stay connected with you so i think it's just a natural urge and and i don't know if it's also kind of been a small business but when we do particularly our independent venue road shows our smaller events and when a client says oh my god i've just you know won a contract as a result i've been at your event we get a genuine like kind of surge of energy that we're making a difference and i just so for me maybe it's just michael i mean i love what shantae said about about culture i do think it's the culture of an organization if the leadership team is very genuine and want to support the team want to support you know be it diversity be it you know any kind of um not even you know um mental health issues but like nelson about going through um ivf and what have you it's you know this is our privilege to be there for people i find leadership an absolute privilege not something i have to do it's something that i get to do and and i think if more people thought like that then there'd be more support in the world for people with their careers their personalized work life balance if there's such um such a thing or or what have you you know whatever we're passionate about i want to support that and and i think i do it because i get to do it i get to live pretty much i'm not saying the life of my dreams i'm not i'm not saying that but i get to do what i want to do and why can't my team as well why can't they have that flexibility if i do so that's kind of where i come from and and i want to carry on doing whatever we can not just personal development in our careers but also in the industry in terms of you know we found i found my niche doing exhibitions as opposed to being on the you know venue finding our event management side that i've done because i just love that whole connecting and making you know seeing an impact and seeing something positive happen as a result of something that i can do i think that's just a huge gift um that we can give absolutely nell i saw you kind of very enthusiastically agreeing with emma there did you want to add something to that i just think it's you know the way that emma described that was perfect that it is a privilege to be in a position of of leadership and i think that some people don't some people expect that when they get to be in that position then people should do what they want them to do rather than understanding the journey that is it's almost like you can forget how how difficult it has been to get to a position where you've got that privilege um and it's really important i think in my fast forward 15 bio i talk about um making sure that you build ladders and that's exactly what others just described building the ladder so that other people can get up behind you as well absolutely okay i'm going to move on to my last sort of pre-planned question and that's for for all of you uh and of course any other questions from the audience we would like to see pop up in the chat box or raise your hand uh so i think ashanti i'll start with you on this last question then if you could change one thing about this industry what you know what would it be for the future generation you know within a quality environment well that's a big question it is a big question we do big questions here yeah do you know honestly and i think i said it in the conversation we had martin last year the industry is already poised it has all the skills it has all the people it has all the talent to impact the rest of the world in a huge way when it comes to equality because every single industry and sector has events and meetings so we are perfectly polished i don't know whether it's about change it's more so about us leveraging what already exists i honestly believe that um and so i just like to see more organizations and agencies and leaders who have the capacity to leverage the tools and the resources they have share them more and invite different people in to work with them so that we can continue to lead on being kind of like a model industry when it comes to diversity and inclusion so the simple answer is leverage i'd like to see the industry leverages existing talent and resources more more often that's a really good point isn't it we have everyone here you know everyone's sort of there ready to go it's a mind it's a question of mindset i guess isn't it helen what about you what would you like to see change you could say one big thing you'd like to review oh yeah for me it's validation um we need to stop invalidating our experiences we need to stop invalidating how we're feeling it stops people reaching out for help when they need it and we need to as well stop invalidating other people's experiences and stories as well yeah of course for for everybody and this includes people with privilege for everybody you know there will be people who are worse off than you and there will be people who will go through a worse experience than you and there are people who will face adversity in a different more difficult way than you we're all different we're all individual it doesn't make what you're experiencing or what your traumas or experiences might be and invalid at all and we need to stop doing that um and especially in our industry because it contributes to this stigma that in that exists in our industry where we feel that we'd be judged or viewed in a different way or people might change their opinions of us kind of in a way that we're we're not strong or professional or anything like that it's we we need to stop doing that as an industry to make it better for the future generation we need to normalize mental health you know mental health is normal we need to stop being fearful of it there's nothing to be scared of in mental health looking after yourself and self-care is nothing to be fearful of no one's going to judge you for taking better care of yourself you see what i mean so for me it's all about that validation and particularly when you know the the support that comes in the support requests and applications and stuff that come in just the responses that we get every single one will have me in tears that i deal with just their response when they send in an application and we're able to say here's the help for you here's some money go and get yourself some groceries here's some money so you can go and buy a newborn baby some clothes because you've not been able to do that i've been able to afford it because of what's happened last year the responses we get where we literally you can feel their emotion in the responses that they give to you and they will in and in the application process they will invalidate the fact that they're coming for support i know there's people worse off than me and they're more difficult situations than us but i've not been able to buy groceries or food for like two months three months have not been able to work since april so my response is always never invalidate your experiences and what you are going through yes there are people worse off than you yeah absolutely because that's the way that life works but it doesn't make what you're experiencing or what you're going through um any less important to you so for me it's validation powerful words indeed uh angie can i ask you then what what one thing would you like to see change um i totally agree with ashanti she said it perfectly we do need to safeguard our skills and our creativity and the people that we have in our industry but there are so many really really good initiatives um delivering support and advocating a better approach for for more positive outcomes so i don't think there's one thing i'd change because as ashanti said it's it's there it just needs to be continued and grown um and yeah validated there's some great words coming out here absolutely i have to make a note of these uh hell let's get your view please what would you like to see change um i think from my hotel days which were a long time ago but i would like um that working environment to be safer for women yeah absolutely and emma yeah i think just sort of everything that everybody said uh around um certainly sort of validating uh or in our our thoughts and building on we've got a great industry the reason why we're desperate for all back is because it's a great industry yes there's things we need to build upon and improve but we've got the foundations there um so this is one thing i could change right now is that we actually have an industry and we have some people who want to would be an amazing change but it's coming i'm feeling positive so yeah keep forgetting about that that's the tour you haven't got any events to run uh okay we've got one question that's coming from caroline and two minutes with which to squeeze it in so caroline why don't i invite you to unmute yourself and uh direct it towards our panel if you want to directly to an individual that might be advised oh that's unfair i pick on i mean my comment was how fantastic the panel does demonstrate how far we've come um but going forward how do we do that in a positive supportive way without wearing a run out and having burnout because we do everything on a shoestring so how can we get that commitment from um employers industry to to support organizations like your own to put the money in i suppose to to offer that net and support so there's two things i'm afraid though one is how to engage more people and secondly how do we move forward more sustainably um who wants to answer that one thanks ashanti yes i think in terms of engaging more people one of the things that i think is really useful is when publishers and companies that have platforms give space for these kinds of conversations and then share them with their community and audiences it's one of the quickest ways um to raise awareness but also show that the industry collectively cares about the issue whatever that issue might be so of course um martin pollard last year i saw the content that came out across the year about things like culture diversity inclusion mental health etc and i think if more platforms commit to consistently doing that as well so that it stays on the agenda so when fast forward 15 are doing another round of recruiting new mentees those publishers and platforms continuing to support i think that's one of the ways that we can um reach more people with this and also to your second point is one of the things that diversity and i always think about is how simple can we make this that's why we produce the guide we produce five global benchmarks for diversity and inclusion nice and simple relevant to the events industry plus a guide because if you don't have the financial resources as a company maybe you're a small company you're a one-man band you're still able to understand what could i do within my power and resources to contribute to a healthier industry so i think it's also about doing what you can with the resources that you have and relying on these kind of events to find new ideas um to work on whatever it is you're trying to work on that's great thank you i've got one more question that's coming that i'd like to just squeeze in and i think angie i'm gonna throw this one so in your direction uh it's coming from claire can you ask the panel how how can we be sure we're reaching out and attracting a diverse group of next generation event professionals there's always the danger of people hiring who they know already we know it's common but we need to find people who can make a difference and getting them in front of the employer as a business owner what's your take on that yeah change old habits um as ashanti has just said you know it's easy the easiest thing is to to get everything all these issues publicized on as many platforms as we can but if i was looking for um if i as an employer if i was looking for more people um i don't think the process of finding people um is flawed so much it's the process of choosing those people and that comes down to culture and attitudes and so it's continually going to be that work of trying to change culture and attitudes within all sizes of companies and within every every individual and that becomes an industry responsibility thank you very much angie okay guys i'm going to wrap that up there and pass back to lee so thank you very much i thought that was uh that was incredibly insightful and i look forward to watching that back myself later on lee over to you thank you martin and thank you to the palace that was really inspiring as emma said you know we need to continue lifting each other up so it's just fantastic to see the support that all of us are offering and will continue to so thank you very much for joining us as i mentioned at the beginning this was in collaboration with the hba and evcom in celebration and recognition of international women's day but also international women's month but also to recognize every single one of us in this industry and the resilient industry that we all love and enjoy and can't wait to get back to um as time progresses so massive thank you we've got another session next week as well um look out on hba and also evcom's communications with regards to that and that's about next gen and um you know stars of the future as well so it's another great session um next week so thank you very much to you martin and again thank you for your support that you provided to us as the industry but also thank you to the panelists and to evcom to helping us to put this together as well thank you very much and have a good rest of your wednesday thank you