noon everybody my name is Claire Fennell oh I'm the executive director at have comm and would like to welcome you to this f comm sessions this week we're focusing on being freelance in the current climate just to explain a little bit about how we're going to do this we're asking you to bear with us we're very new to this so we are learning as we go so we're we're asking that you allow for any technical pitches we may have along the way but just so that you understand the format we're allowing about 40 minutes for chat and then if you want to post questions into the chat facility we're going to allow about 10 to 15 minutes at the end and myself and my colleague Emilia will then put those questions to the panel so we'll select so there isn't too much duplication and so on and we'll batch them into groups just to make it easier for the panel to deal with we will just monitor we're going to allow about 10 minutes per subject but as I say we were to do this as we go along we'll see how we go any resources that are offered at any suggestions will be gathered and kept and will be posted on our website after the event so without further ado I'm going to pass you over to Sarah Cooper from plastic pictures and and she will introduce the rest of the panel to you and I hope you have an enjoyable and session and we'll catch up with you all later Thank You Clare for outlining that and this is the first webinar I've ever hosted so and see how we go and so my name is Sarah Cooper I'm I and the co-founder of plastic pictures and now I wanted to facilitate this webinar for freelancers because as a small business owner plastic pictures we have about 20 full-time staff we rely constantly on a talented world-class pool of freelancers who contribute massively enormous litres excessive our services and our creative output so on behalf of plastic pictures and many other production companies out there we are very empathetic towards you all at the moment and we're hoping that this session and can throw up some useful ideas and there'll be a commitment at the end which we want to pledge to you as well so that's precisely why I wanted to facilitate this session a show of solidarity that employers and not dysplastic pictures but many of the other top 50 production companies and edcom are thinking about you and we cannot do what we do without you so I will would be my honor to introduce our panelists and I would just start to share my screen so you can see all right hopefully everybody can see that so and myself we have Tim Langford who's a freelance filmmaker give us a waved him Gavin butts tonight who's a freelance film writer and director unfortunately we've had a very last minute drop out from Jenny who needed to go to hospital she's okay though it's all right and so we have your a call who is a freelancer from the events site and trust me I think the events side of feeling this more than the film site so thank you for joining us and we wanted to sort of spend about 30 minutes covering off some some key topics and that is and what what you can do or some suggestions of what you can do with your downtime now also how production companies and freelancers can work together during this time and post covert as well and then just sort of talking about what next really some predictions and and how we can kind of move forward as well to create a tighter community for freelancers so we can sort of be a little bit more connected moving forward in the future so firstly I just wanted to put a disclaimer out there I'm not on the government Cobra team I really only know as much about the government advice as it evolves from the website the government website as as you do so in terms of discussing things like furloughing and all that sort of things I I really am NOT a specialist in that subject however do you want to which you into the direction of a Facebook group that was set up about a week ago by my own and by plastic pitcher zone finance and operations controller and her name's Nuala she set this up in his spare time it's called finance advice for freelancers and small businesses during co vid there's 156 members already and it's been quite active so I can only suggest that if you want to sort of connect with other freelancers and and follow that thread that they'll be some very interesting discussions happening on that Facebook group so so that is my disclaimer I'm sorry I really don't know any more than everybody else in this situation so really what we want to do is during this session and sort of engage the wider community here about your ideas and its webinars less about the have-nots and more about offering sort of enabling thoughts and suggestions so our panelists and of course yourself will have something valuable useful or uplifting to shared and then please put it in the comments box as well and that will be monitored you know above all now more than ever we really want to hear about moments of sort of real progress that we can all relate to and be inspired by and learn from as we navigate all of this together okay so what will crack on this crisis is impacting all of us in in ways that we could have imagined although I run plastic pictures equally I'm trying to juggle a job with my year-old son and a daughter who's still sitting in his pajamas so that's telling you how good a job I'm doing it being a mum right now so it's affecting us in all sorts of ways and I think it's important to remember that we're all at our best when we sort of come together collaborate and share so I start to move into our our session and talk about how creativity can can move us forward and I mean I've been doing a bit of prep without without panelists Gavin and and Tim and Laura and we want to talk about downtime ideas so I think the most positive outcome that we can jump to and certainly one that I'm hoping for that once the restrictions are lifted and we'll be able to just dive back into all the productions that were postponed and cancelled and you know my intuition is that that I expect it to be busier than ever and that I won't be taking a summer holiday at all and in fact I'll be telling my staff that they can't take summer holidays so so I think that's the most positive outcome the issue with that being that everybody else is is going to be kind of doing the same and it'll be this big bottleneck so I think the idea is sharing on dear ideas on how we convert our downtime now and to go time later so we can kind of get ahead and get you ahead and so when the productions do start happening you already have your foot in the door and that you you're maintaining those connections so I was just sort of hand over to perhaps Gavin first to talk about some of the ideas or what you've been doing in your downtime to ensure that when we're all sort of three it go times effective yes I've been speaking to a few thing arts as I know who are not at comments and a lot of them have been getting sort of in one word getting tacked up you know whether you've got a website most most cameramen leave their websites for date so they can do new Sharia you work up there but it's not just about websites it's about getting into social media - tweeter the world is running at the moment on a digital platform so if you haven't got a LinkedIn account and you're doing business communications this is the time now even if you're a freelancer doesn't have direct access to those business class to build a LinkedIn profile Instagram if you're a Karen or photographer it'd be absolute crazy if you not have an Instagram account make it up to date make it as as as as advanced as you can possibly sure and also join those those organizations those networks that can help you I'm happened to be based in Bristol I'm a member of British tour media they are fantastic at doing networking events and and sharing information they've got a whole load of stuff on that at the moment about free resources for for people like me and and also if you're a member of a an organisation's actually funny well I know I used to be remember the talent manager the talent manager has a lot of broadcast jobs and they advertise all the time get your profile on on on platforms like time there's quite a few out there I know that people use be get your your CV in your plan and your profile on those platforms looking really good so that you're you're ready to go when when when the travel ban is lifted wait Thank You Laura any suggestions what are you doing when you're down time well I think like all three answers we all work towards our strengths when we're we're working for clients and so what I try to focus on is actually areas where I'm weak and I feel that I maybe could be improving on and so for in my industry it could be the safety of an event and those key areas I've been looking at online courses a lot of free webinars and online courses at the moment that are available I've been looking at that I've been speaking a lot believe my fellow freelancers and just keep in touch with my clients because it's important to keep our name out there and to keep in touch with them and check in with them so it's it's also just nice to know that everyone else is feeling it too and to get positivity from obi-wan and get advice from people or maybe stronger in the areas that you feel you're weaker I think that's a really great suggestion Nora it's all about up feeling and continuous learning and learning and learning and relearning what you already know and I think porco bird we were also always so busy in it so hard to find time to learn something new or to Illya so now is the perfect opportunity to start sort of taking those things off of all the things that you wanted to to sort of take part in but never had the time to because you're working 24/7 especially in events tip how are you using your time actually the first thing I want to say is the nature of being of freelance I've always thought excuse me incredibly flexible resourceful adaptable people we're like a kind of species to me and I kind of think so it's kind of thinking about how can I take what I know how can I adapt how can I be flexible how can I think a little bit differently in the same way that when I think over the years all the different people and the clients that I've worked with in different very different situations of their own demands and there's that part of your mind your brain and that's kind of I think has has become very kind of reflexive and so on so I think as freelancers we actually have a certain advantage from that point of view so what have I been doing I guess first of all it was like a kick up the backside for me because frankly I was partly going through my own social isolation before all this kicked off and was just number one talk to people it's Evans it sounds a bit bizarre but to message people in lots of different ways to call people up to emailed them and so on and so forth so I've ended up having these conversations with all sorts of people some a lot of them are are are self-employed and they're people that actually frankly I've lost touch with so I found that really really helpful it's been helpful for my kind of sense of my mental health in all this it's really helped and it's also helped making a connection and just getting that bit of support or the support you give each other in lots of different ways really that's that's one aspect the other thing is I've got a mantra and it's pretentious but it's it's like it's about make something right something share something create something I started I went back through all my old films which got loads and I just started putting them out there again and writing stories about them because it seems to me that quite a lot of the work that I've done the past it seems to be quite relevant to what was going on here so I suppose you might say that's kind of a form of marketing there's a kind of me sort of trying to put myself back in the arena as well I've really enjoyed the feedback you know really satisfying your Tim flicks yes I was gonna pick up on that Tim so I've been enjoying them as well the the the other thing that I think people should should consider is don't focus on what you can't do now some what you can do so obviously for me I'm a mainly director so writer so at the moment I'm pushing myself as a writer and I've actually got some some commissions to do some some quite organises that I'm writing a speech for somebody who's gonna do a speech on zoom because you know they wanted to present themselves very well if you have a skill that you can concentrate on and deliver now you know if it's editing a film with existing material or doing things that deliver still deliver a project in our in our industry with that without you know getting around these these these restrictions then then then you can still do that I would also like to add something into the mix as well um I think you know I think if you work with a company quite a lot you you work on a particular client quite a lot I would say don't wait for a brief to come to you now is the time where you could be brainstorming on ideas that you could be proposing to that client in the future so you know I've been emailed by almost every single company that I've ever had contact with telling me about how they're handling Cove it and I know that there's going to be so many stories that come at the back of this whether it's a company wanting to tell how great their employees were during this time or whatever I do think there's opportunity to start thinking about potential ideas that could go into production you know that you haven't received a brief for already be proactive with those ideas with the producers that you know or the execs that you know or whoever and and feed those ideas up to them you know because it now is the time to be able to work on ideas when you haven't been issued a brief basically and that's sort of how I'm starting to trying to keep some of my freelancers well is saying listen you know I haven't got a brief but start thinking about what we could do on the other side of this as well particularly for freelancers who know who know my clients and brand brands quite well I think there was another suggestion Gavin you made the other day the day about having a press card yes so I think um you know they're asked shoot still going on out there and one of the cameramen I know is doing quite a lot of multi camera work he hadn't had bought some new equipment just before the the lockdown where he can operate three three cameras as one individual those two automatic cameras do you get in studios but he's got a mobile unit and it's basically being booked out constantly ever since the lockdown and you know he goes to the shoots and he observes seeing as required but you know she shoots don't stop in the circumstances technically media activities are allowed to continue in this situation because this broadcast news and communication is vital in this process that we're going through so anybody's got a press card and legally one argues that you know if you're making a film for a food manufacturer or a food retailer or an NHS trust moment that is probably more important work and anything you're gonna see on that on the TV or on the news at the moment you can legitimately push back if you are challenged by the police about why you ran about your film gear because you are doing vital communication work for whatever organizations Commission you know they're not going to ask you to do this you know if it isn't essential that the chief exec of Sainsbury's gets out there and and says those things to his staff about how they're gonna cope the current increase in there if it's that and you can do it and if you could Prescott it makes a lot easier you they won't be able to challenge you just like to that that I got message the other day by a cameraman he's got a van in North London and he's he's been doing volunteer work he's been delivering food parcels and so on but he said to be look my camera gear here in the boot if you want to shoot something you want me to start shooting something if you've got an idea I'm here I'm out and about you know and I think he's got that he's got the rights of press card and all the rest of it so I'm sure there's people out there who would like to make themselves available to you know work with us because the other thing is sorry pointed out I think there's all manner of documentaries waiting to be made and no doubt some are being made right now as we talk and we could all think lots of different you know stories to tell that there's the business were in here we're about ideas we're about seeing opportunities and you know this is an opportunity to tell so many different kinds of stories both you know and many of those are about all the companies that you know the corporate sector and how how employees and so on are dealing with the situation how the company's dealing with the situation so on and I'm quite sure they kind of want to tell their story once we're further down this road absolutely I mean some of these ideas might seem obvious perfect time to learn and upskill yourself take a master class etc perfect time to update your showreel and your CV and your digital online presence you know really proactively PR in yourself so they might all seem like obvious ideas but you know the perfect perfect time to do them and and if you are a creative or writer or director then you know coming up with potential ideas to pitch in to the various clients that you work for proactively rather than waiting around for a brief did I say learning yes I did okay so thank you we're going to move on to our next sort of subheading in a way I think over the last few weeks we've all adapted to new ways of working expanded my comfort and capability with remote working and all things tech and have downloaded lots of different apps etc and but what can production companies and the freelance community learn from each other over this time some of the I'll start just to kick things off so an example is at the moment because we don't have such clarity on our business pipeline and you know normally we were able to sort of predict actually three months into into the future of what projects will come in and they're likely to hit and and you know we're able to manage our cash flow a little bit better but with the uncertainty we're having to sort of be a little bit more flexible so one of the things that we've started to do with some of our freelancers who are able to is and to chart their charging they've agreed to bill on an hourly rate which is great because at some point sometimes we just kind of book someone for a whole day now that might not work for everybody but particularly for editors or producers who may be straddling multiple projects where they don't need to dedicate a whole day to that particular client they're willing to taut up their hours at the moment it's it's still their day rate but it's just a more flexible way of managing the workflow it gives a little bit of flexibility by the side so that's that's one thing that plastic pictures have started doing with our freelance community so I don't know if anybody has thought about contacting the companies that they work for regularly and saying look I'd be happy to work on a on an hourly rate if that works for you yeah it's just going to say that's precisely what I've done there's a company I know they're not in the UK and I know that they are struggling financially but they got in touch with me about a pitch nor make a charge for writing it I've you know I basically wrote the spec for them on the basis that you know maybe come September October they'll have a project waiting for me I paid basically and yes and Tim you've written it in good faith and sometimes these conditions that's kind of what you have to do or at least that's what I decided Laura hi yeah I think I'm eventually being flexible it's just so important right now for for my industry all the events that were taking place the first six months of this year and I postponed to the autumn/winter periods fingers crossed and so I've got a lot of clients now that actually they can't afford to make payments at all for contracts that I was already signed up to do so I've I've had to personally take a hit and say okay no pay for the next but there's a guarantee that come September there that I will be paid because where the event goes ahead or not so it's just trying to remain flexible and stay on the good side of the people you work on as well because if I G I do really think that you will benefit from doing that and that your your feel that you're sticking to the forefront of their mind if they then need more people to help them they'll they'll lean on you more it's sort of been you know you know who you can rely on in the tough times you know and I think equally in that measure you know I'm accepting jobs at the moment that I would never normally agree to you know whereas you know I'm we're sort of breaking even on a lot of jobs and which which will eventually mean that we're not breaking even because they always they always run over don't they but but as a way to keep people employed at the moment so even if we're able to break even on a job it means that we can carry on employing a freelancer for you know another week or another two weeks so I think it really is about being flexible and sort of not so much looking at the short-term which I know is a really difficult thing to do but sort of looking at the long term and that's certainly what we're trying to do at plastic pitchers we would never normally accept jobs where we wouldn't make any money but at the moment it's just about turning over and being able to carry on paying people you know I think with with all about freelancers we always try and pay those people first and thankfully we've been able to do but I think just talking openly with whoever you have invoices out with and letting them know your situation if there's anything they can do even if it might be paying part 25% of that invoice with 50% of that invoice normally people are finance departments whoever manages that further up the chain is is normally quite sympathetic to that I believe I think if you are accepting new contracts you might want to discuss upfront your terms payment terms and conditions so if do you get a week's or whatever then you know we're open to paying people within seven days whereas usually our payment twos exceeds would be thirty days so just asking whether there's flexibility on your payment terms and conditions is is is great too Gavin howhow are you experiencing new ways of working I was just gonna pick up on your on your on sort of points about cash flow I've just done a couple of jobs and I really really appreciated the the fastest time that have been paid in fact I am the two companies involved and you know that was that was an open discussion i I just said to them you know is it possible normally my terms of payment are 28 days and and you know they both pay me with one in seven days and one in 14 days which is which is just really really great for me and you know I think for other freelancers we even production companies who may be listening I don't know who's tuning into this but is cash flows really important for you and also for individuals probably more say and you know there's no harm as a freelancer having that conversation saying you know in one case I just said has the clown paid its job and they'd happen to paid everything upfront and so I just said well can you pay me now and they just said yeah we can pay you and and that was the one that was paid in seven days so that that's fantastic what I'd like to do in terms of its concentrate on my writing because obviously I can't do location shooting I haven't been asked to do much location shooting at the moment so pushing my script services for people who are doing animation and again just thinking about what I can do and looking at other other writing that I can do for other other uses so I used to write a lot of presenter scripts for video stars making but that's very similar to a lot of people a lot of senior execs out there having to go on things like this and do speeches or manage sessions online and sometimes they want helped in those kind of circumstances and it's just the same as writing a script represented so I managed to get involved with that thing I just went around it's the bigger picture here and you know whether you're an employer or freelancer ask me about what we're all been going through is we're kind of codependent you know we really do need each other and I know you can argue well some people are in weaker and somewhere in stronger Scituate positions right now essentially where this you know with its multifaceted network and we're all connected I know this sounds a bit it sounds a bit hippie light but it just strikes me that's we do need each other and Trust isn't it and when you work with clients as always that sense that you're being you know entrusted with their brand you trusted to through an idea do you think Trust is at the heart of what we do and that's very much about the relationship freelancers and clients and freelancers and employers really it's just something we should keep in mind I think because that's the glue that's connecting us yeah I think that's a really nice segue into our next topic Tim and that's what what's next I mean look this there's no crystal ball at the moment no Oracle you know I think that regular office life is is going to go through changes that certainly shown me that my workforce doesn't necessarily all need to in the same physical space although I know we like to be but it has given me confidence that the people who do need more flexibility in their roles and who are wanting to work from home more are actually valuable at home and I think that's eliminated that sort of doubt that I had at people working from home and how effective they are so I think there's going to be changes that's going to go beyond covert and this could also be really the moment where self-employment is reshaped for years to come really you know I think you know we've been we've been seeing more and more you know largely because because I think there'll be more freelancers in fact because I think a lot of people from this will not want to put all their eggs in one basket and work for one company thinking that perhaps if that company goes down and there's no other resource so I actually think that there might be a surgeon in freelancers I also think you know as you were talking about Tim you know I I am plastic pitchers has a has a black book of freelancers that we like to work with and we're often so busy and blinkered that we continue to use those freelancers and I think because we do that because there seems to be a lack of a a central database or a or a sorry that's just going on or a lack of a central resource where we can meet where we can find names of new people and I think I think it would be maybe ways of moving forward and what next is is how can we kind of create and more connected freelancer circle where people like me or other production companies and can find people easily or and and equally on the other flip side of that that you can all talk to each other better and I don't know complain about how one company's [ __ ] paying people on time then another or whatever have your own sort of private moans about things yes thankfully we pay our people in time so no hopefully not but yeah I think I think I know that there's a lot of TV you know used to come from TV and I know it's a lot of dedicated TV groups of TV professionals etc but there doesn't seem to be one the corporate industry and there's so many great talent out there and I actually think making corporate films making TV and so the producers are the producers and the people that work in and the filmmakers and sound and everybody who works in corporate is a much trickier job and I think how can we start to create this kind of this virtuous circle in a sense what do you think I think you know I think I think it's a tough one because because you know technically freelancers are quite you know I I do know a lot of other directs we don't all meet up with sort of competitors and it's it's a very strange one but I think through something like ever common up are pretty to to perhaps expand the events I've been to any other fields I've always really enjoyed it and I think certainly they've come has been one place where I do that as I said we've got there are other channels to do to do that kind of activity maybe is really really useful to compare notes and and Bristol Media is very good in the creative so you know the creative companies in that area and they do a lot of very good events Laura is there a group that the events professionals use and to talk to one another is it helpful what's your experience I must say actually the events industry as a whole has been extremely supportive we have a couple of large associations for our industry and as soon as the lockdown happened they kind of reached out to or freelancers and offered to do and a freelance portfolio in the next edition of the magazine that was available online and mailed out to lot of people so I became a part of that there's an association that every week he's now showcasing a freelancer and it's a one page of a website where they've been are sending questions they can promote themselves and that will be on that platform for a week and it'll go to the next person who's been nominated and so that's just been really nice because everyone's talking to each other and I know there's something similar for you in your industry but I think collectively if you can all get together and approach an association or organization with this idea because in their file view then they will look to do it and support you because ultimately freelancers help the industry so much as you say we have so much knowledge collectively we all rely on each other and work together very closely that would it's worked really well for me the last few weeks I've been extremely grateful in the support I've had I think you know I've come here in the role of F come I mean I mean that sounds absolutely brilliant what you're saying I think we need to be proactive in with freelancers in in have come we need to be proactive in terms of offering a platform a window from what we do and opportunities to get in front of people whether we're doing that by the zoom or eventually hopefully we can do it you know face to face we could be building that Network now and there's a great opportunity here and there's a real need I think there's an idea I've had just in freelancers just thinking generally it's just back to this thing about skills and that maybe what we need is some kind of pact as it were between us as freelancers you know for example the thing that I'm not very good at and the things I guess I hope I'm better at it's whether we can have some kind of shared skill space for example so that you kind of offer a quid pro quo where you say ok ask I'll I'll teach you this in exchange for you know something else so there's no money passing hands but what there is is skills and knowledge that are being a kind of exchange and that's also about thanks for building a kind of a network network shared skills things that you can pass on so of course it has to be done on trust and so on but it's an old-fashioned idea and it doesn't involve money you've been something like that for myself as well a group of us have got together because they like to do business so the events will clash later on in the year there's not going to be enough people to do all the events that you would normally do so it's a tryst network of okay if I cannot do this level of work could you help me here what's your what's your skill set here and we've all kind of pulled together and and created a plan of how we could make it work if that is the scenario it's worked really well how do you facilitate that communication and organization between one another so at the moment we've been happy using zoom and just having the conversations and kind of everyone's report to the table what they foresee the scenario to be and create a date line of where there could be the clashes and where people think they could help with different aspects of the event and we just tried to map out a timeline really and create a schedule of where people could slot in and help I don't care something that you thought could work with you but it's it's good to just have that reassurance that you could all work together yeah I think that something would like to follow up with you perhaps and Claire sort of in the loop and we can find out some more details I think we've got about five minutes left and I just want to kind of talk about it calm briefly and what we can what we what we'd like to try and do at the moment to help freelancers ever come is a voluntary Association there really we really run it on an honored shoestring and all the board members give their time for free etc so unfortunately there is sort of a way that we can pull a financial fund together or anything although that would be amazing wouldn't it Netflix and things are doing um but what we were talking about yesterday and a bit today is basically making a commitment to all the freelancers to to basically put you forward to all the production companies that are on our membership database so for example I try and carve out in normal times once once a week - or to meet with new people a new talent however I thought after this I want to really challenge myself and commit to meeting at least six new people every fortnight so that's three people a week and whether that be a virtual meeting or or a face-to-face meeting eventually so I thought as using EV comms influence and our connections of all the different production company owners that are on the board we thought that if all the freelancers can update their CDs and and use the membership directory - to isolate three five production companies that you've always wanted to get a meet and greet with or get some time with if you send those suggestions to us we will commit to getting you those interviews and those meeting greets with with various people at those production companies whether it be media zoo the edge a vision gorilla gorilla whoever you've always wanted to get a foot in the door with or a meet-and-greet we want to commit to helping you schedule those meetings with those people that's a great idea and I think that would be very useful for people so obviously slightly younger than perhaps me and Tim who you know in the earlier part of their careers getting the foot in the doors is the hardest thing and and getting those introductions I always say to myself it's harder to get the work than it is to actually do it these days and you know that doesn't change I think I think that's a great initiative that if they ever come can provide that through the director I think that would be be huge so yes so if I could just interject at this point and say having discussed this with Sarah we are very happy to take that and make sure that we get the message out we don't have a clear idea yet of how we're going to do that but it will be a resource will be the portal which gets all of the requests in and then we shall put them out to the relevant parties and I also details who's on this webcast and so after this we'll work out the logistics of that and sort of set a deadline as well and when you'll need to submit your your your wishes of who you want to get in front of and then we'll start to schedule that we've got a board meeting I think next week so I'll be spearheading this at the board table and making every single person around that table commit to it as well as getting in touch with various other people in the directory who I feel will get behind this I know they will like I said we rely on you freelancers and we want to see you back in our business and want to meet more of you as well so I definitely think this is something that we can follow through with over the coming weeks and particularly where we've got a lot of business owners at home doing new meetings it's a it's a really good time to get you in front of people because you know they're not distracted with with other things at the office and I also very much like the idea of showcasing you different freelancer Laura I think you mentioned that I think that's a great idea so I will discuss with my colleague Amelia and we'll see how we can introduce something like that to our site because I think that's that's a really cool idea that you said before and we we haven't mentioned this at all but but it's not to do with with with those brilliant ideas but you mentioned that if people are going to themselves or they need universal credit or the pact website which I looked at from one aspect yesterday today is full of you know if you are looking for financial support website has every single resource you would need to do that and the phone of yourself is not as bad as it may seem particularly for your sole trader limited company not myself you can get some of your salary um paid and it doesn't prevent you from working for another company you can't work for your own company anymore but you can go and get a part-time job and work or volunteer do anything for employer and and and I think there's a lot of miscommunication out there about you know sure support is available but if you do need financial support then they go to the Patt website and that it doesn't prevent you from doing other work and and you know increasing your your income in in whatever means possible so I was just mindful of the of the time and there's one or two questions that I wanted to put that have come through so I'll do the the first two because they sort of link and what for each of you and what will the industry look like post covered nineteen and the big big million-dollar question is will the budgets still be there host go up at nineteen so perhaps just get a view from from all of you on those to me on what the industry is gonna look like I I think there's gonna be less travel and I think particularly for events make a lot of videos for event event companies I I see those events going ahead and I see the country in which the event is taking place being attended by those people that country but I do not see any amount of global travel we had I think the amount you know lawyers and bankers who fly around the world sort of collecting air miles I think those days are over and I think that that's gonna impact the event industry it's a it's a hunch it's a guess but I think that the events will take place still and a lot more that need in any any any audience that needs to come in from other parts of the world from Australia for a UK been isn't have become an audience like this like a virtual one because these systems weren't really well and it's been proven that we can all continue and carry on I think the film location I think obviously trouble is still has to take place on that we'll continue but I think look at budgets very carefully because of the economic decline she's gonna go through after this event I just want to add to what having said I'm I'm quite short budgets are gonna be there's gonna be less this company's not going to be cash-strapped and but again that's an opportunity for us especially as freelancers because I think they're really good at making money work on the screen I think the other thing that's gonna change is the kind of content that they're gonna Commission I think there's gonna be less it's gonna be much more reflective and it's there's going to be a legacy from what we're going through and the tip in terms of the way companies think about their values what they stand for how they communicate with their employees so the kind of content they're going to want to see I think it's going to shift a little bit I think the new normal will emerge fairly quickly for me below the line communications what we do is is corporate filmmakers has has even more place in this in this in the creative industries and it ever has above the lines and commercials and and not going to bounce back as quickly because companies need internal communications to motivate their workforce and inspire their workforce so below-the-line content is becoming more valuable than a blind content because human consumers don't want to be marketed products that aren't relevant to them or have a have a need in society so I think there's plenty of reasons to believe that the future will be very very bright after this and I think there's going to be plenty of work out there I want to completely agree with Gavin and I think the events will change in terms of travel and I think that event companies they will adapt and be more cautious now I when it comes to deciding what event to launch or what to learn I think it's making it kind of look their portfolios and what they what they want to achieve from them so I think from from my side from freelancers I think it's a really positive thing for us they're going to reach out to our expertise we have so much more knowledge because we work on different possibilities all the timing not just working for one company or at least I work for different clients and so I think that gives us an advantage and clients may lean on us more for help with that there's one more question which I'm also keen to hear if anyone's got the perfect answer to which was in terms of digital platforms to run hybrid events you know this is one of the questions that more and more people are trying to do this kind of thing does anyone have any recommendations this is WebEx and the one that we're using but yeah I think everybody is looking for the perfect platform so all suggestions welcome with anyone having me right now we prefer WebEx I find zoom in a bit the bandwidths a bit temperamental sometimes so we prefer to use WebEx seems to have smoother connection most of the time we prefer zoom yeah pretty good I mean it was more fun because you can change your backgrounds and put a face filter on and do some other stuff filters can you make me look 20 years younger we wake up in the morning you don't know right I think at this point it's it's there for 50 so we should possibly call it a day and I would like to thank everybody for contributing and I'd like to thank all the panelists Tim Sarah Gavin and Laura and I'd like to thank all our attendees for joining us noon and hopefully we'll see you at see you and hear you and another event coming soon we have a whole series of these coming up so we hope you'll join us again further down the road and what's a meeting more of you and good luck everybody keep an eye on the African website and we will we will post something as to how to access the sort of the booking system to get in to see some production companies everybody